Singlehand...how big is too big?

[TangaraToo]

I spend most of my sailing single handed and for me the important part is not how the boat handles in open water as you have plenty of space and therefore time to sort things out. How it handles at close quarters is the key and that is about design rather than size. Current boat is 29'8" long fin keel with two blade folding prop. It's a pig in marinas as astern does diddly for the first 10 seconds apart from swing the stern to port 30 degrees. Zero braking effect. This tends to make life interesting getting in to tight berths with wind and tide from astern.
On my coastal shipper course I sailed a HR36. During the week we were allowed to practice single handed berthing (on and off).
Compared to my much smaller boat it was a doddle.

 

[doug748]

"This tends to make life interesting getting in to tight berths with wind and tide from astern."


You have my respect for giving it a go. If I detect any tide at all into a closed marina box berth, I normally try elsewhere.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Some of the comments about size and the desirability of being able to get from cockpit to pontoon quickly to moor up makes me wonder whether people are trying to tie up larger boats in the way you might come alongside with two crew and a small boat.

It's been alluded to on this thread by some, but when I bring our 39' boat along side I'm only interested in getting ONE line ashore at first. I don't even leave the centre cockpit or wheel. As I prep the boat (usually motoring in under autopilot) I rig a line from the centre cleat with a large bowline in the end. I come along side and with the aid of the boat hook drop it on a cleat on the dock. I then motor ahead slowly and put the helm over (steering away from the dock). Even with wind etc pushing you away from the dock the boat will drive herself in and end up sitting with engine running pinned against the pontoon.

This technique has been described on here many times before, but all this talk of windage on big boats and 'time to get from the cockpit to moor up' made me wonder if some might not have tried it.

Thats exactly how I dock my 50 ft 24 ton boat but I use a mooring hook attached to line from centre cleat. SWMBO used mooring attached to extending boat hook to attach line to outer dock cleat and I just motor against it adjusting the rudder ans forward engine to bring the stern to the dock then steep off and fix bow and stern lined at leisure.

Jumping from boat to dock when approaching dock is banned on my boat.

 

[maby]

...


Jumping from boat to dock when approaching dock is banned on my boat.

Very wise - I did serious damage to an ankle with a poorly aimed jump from a boat several years ago...

 

[Fantasie 19]

I would like to give you a great answer...but honestly, I think it must be a vanity issue. I have never really liked the pegasus, I am an inexperienced sailor though, so it's not like I've outgrown it speed or excitement wise, and as the whole crux of the thread is regarding single handing, it obviously has enough space. Only leaves vanity, or perhaps overcompensating for other things lol.

What I don't want to do, is exactly what you describe...more faff and can't be bothered to go. This is the reason behind starting this post.

While these guys swap war stories about docking then rolleyes, w.r.t your original question D), what is it you don't like about the Pegasus ("I have never really liked the pegasus") ... level of kit?? Autohelm? Reefing? Roller furling? Looks?

Bigger boats are more faff, someone will undoubtedly come along and tell you they go sailing every 5 minutes, etc etc, but most of the time the bigger the boat the more likely it is that you won't just go at the drop of a hat, or for a couple of hours mooching... and the bills/time involved are larger as the boat gets bigger... so what you might be looking for is a different boat of the same size (or smaller)??

 

[maby]

While these guys swap war stories about docking then rolleyes, w.r.t your original question D), what is it you don't like about the Pegasus ("I have never really liked the pegasus") ... level of kit?? Autohelm? Reefing? Roller furling? Looks?

Bigger boats are more faff, someone will undoubtedly come along and tell you they go sailing every 5 minutes, etc etc, but most of the time the bigger the boat the more likely it is that you won't just go at the drop of a hat, or for a couple of hours mooching... and the bills/time involved are larger as the boat gets bigger... so what you might be looking for is a different boat of the same size (or smaller)??

The bills are certainly more expensive but, at least up to the sizes we have been discussing here, I don;t see much evidence of larger boats being used less. There may be an apparent correlation based on the fact that newcomers to sailing will tend to go for smaller boats and will also be more hungry to get out on the water. Our first boat was a 27 footer and we were out pretty much every Saturday and Sunday. After a couple of years, we upgraded to a 33 footer and it is true that our level of usage started to drop off, but that was not due to the increased size - we had simply got beyond that initial hunger to be out and were beginning to just enjoy being on the boat. We were also beginning to get a bit bored with the places in easy reach of our berth.

We upgraded again to a 43 and became aware that we were seldom moving it - so we raised anchor and sailed round to the Solent - now we are back to going out as often as we can...

 

[rwoofer]

While these guys swap war stories about docking then rolleyes, w.r.t your original question D), what is it you don't like about the Pegasus ("I have never really liked the pegasus") ... level of kit?? Autohelm? Reefing? Roller furling? Looks?

Bigger boats are more faff, someone will undoubtedly come along and tell you they go sailing every 5 minutes, etc etc, but most of the time the bigger the boat the more likely it is that you won't just go at the drop of a hat, or for a couple of hours mooching... and the bills/time involved are larger as the boat gets bigger... so what you might be looking for is a different boat of the same size (or smaller)??

Having been at both ends, it is the type of mooring that determines whether to go out at the drop of a hat. Marina based mooring basically saves so much time compared to having to get the tender out and row to a mooring. Find this is amplified further with the family.

 

[jac]

The bills are certainly more expensive but, at least up to the sizes we have been discussing here, I don;t see much evidence of larger boats being used less. There may be an apparent correlation based on the fact that newcomers to sailing will tend to go for smaller boats and will also be more hungry to get out on the water. Our first boat was a 27 footer and we were out pretty much every Saturday and Sunday. After a couple of years, we upgraded to a 33 footer and it is true that our level of usage started to drop off, but that was not due to the increased size - we had simply got beyond that initial hunger to be out and were beginning to just enjoy being on the boat. We were also beginning to get a bit bored with the places in easy reach of our berth.

We upgraded again to a 43 and became aware that we were seldom moving it - so we raised anchor and sailed round to the Solent - now we are back to going out as often as we can...

I think there is a lot in this. I'm really not sure what extra tasks need to be done to take a 40 footer out rather than a 30 footer. They will have same number of mooring lines / fenders to handle. same number of sails to furl / unfurl. covers etc are down to personal taste of course as to whether or not they are in place.

Yes - a 40 footer will have bigger equipment = heavier but should also have better winches etc so issues with load should be minimal. They may also have more kit on them which needs more work to maintain, but assuming the 40 footer is rigged / equipped the same then I can't see the 40 footer being significantly more effort to take from her moorings than the 30 footer. EVen dinghies need covers removing, sails bending on, launching and recovery etc.

 

[RupertW]

I think there is a lot in this. I'm really not sure what extra tasks need to be done to take a 40 footer out rather than a 30 footer. They will have same number of mooring lines / fenders to handle. same number of sails to furl / unfurl. covers etc are down to personal taste of course as to whether or not they are in place.

Yes - a 40 footer will have bigger equipment = heavier but should also have better winches etc so issues with load should be minimal. They may also have more kit on them which needs more work to maintain, but assuming the 40 footer is rigged / equipped the same then I can't see the 40 footer being significantly more effort to take from her moorings than the 30 footer. EVen dinghies need covers removing, sails bending on, launching and recovery etc.

When I look at the difficulties of sailing my 24 and my 42 footer (one is near home and one is a flight away), the 24 footer is obviously a doddle to hoist sails on, but otherwise the tasks are about the same. The smaller boat needs its fenders put away as they won't stay on the side deck as we do on the bigger boat even for overnight or rough sails, and it has a sail cover to put away instead of unzipping a stack pack.

Otherwise the larger boat is less tiring, especially for longer sails as doing everything from checking navigation to boiling a kettle to using the loo is easier and therefore more comfortable and quicker. Tieing up is a lot easier too but that's because we normally anchor at night and Med mooring is just two stern ropes and an anchor rather than springs etc etc.

 

[Kukri]

That is my experience too.

 

[Bobc]

Not sure I agree with this, Having gone from a boat with a biggish genoa and smaller main to one with a big main and smaller jib and find it much easier. Mains are much easier to control and reduce area, particularly if you have in mast, ans smaller jibs make tacking easier. agree about the longer keel - however the Beneteau was built with more than one type of keel, including a wing keel.

Slightly different boat WADR. I've been on the helm of a 35s5 when it decides to screw-up, and when it starts to go you need to hang on and pull on the tiller like buggery.

 

[Daydream believer]

I do not think cost is the issue as to whether a boat is too big to single hand or not. That is more to do with personal circumstance. But as the subject has been raised, i find that because of the amount that I spend on the boat I tend to use it more to justify the expense.
If it cost diddly squit I would probably only use it occasionally

 

[LONG_KEELER]

What about the ride though ?

Just me maybe , but I have found the ride on bigger yachts less than satisfying . You don't feel the boat so much although I agree that they are less tiring to sail , and live, than small boats.

 

[Uricanejack]

Having been at both ends, it is the type of mooring that determines whether to go out at the drop of a hat. Marina based mooring basically saves so much time compared to having to get the tender out and row to a mooring. Find this is amplified further with the family.

I would agree with this. when I kept my boat in a marina, we did a lot of. Just go down to the boat and go out for a potter. Some times just hung out on the boat.
I keep it on a mooring now. Very affordable. but Just the time it takes to organise we don't go out and potter. never just hang out.
Going away involves. putting dingy in car, carrying it down to the dock, pumping it up, rowing out to the boat, checking the boat out. starting it up dropping mooring, bringing the boat in to a dock.
loading all our gear, stores ect. If there is no space on the dock there is several trips with the dingy.
Now we can go sailing.
Used to keep dingy at the dock. Not any more I am tiered of supplying scroat's with free dinghies.