Singlehand...how big is too big?

[Bobc]

It does depend on the boat though. The 35s5 has a deep blade-like keel and a big main, and will screw-up into wind big-time in a gust, which is not a characteristic you want in a singlehander. In my view, a boat with a big genoa, a smaller main, and a long-ish fin would be much better suited.

The point re controls is well made but I would take issue with large sail area being a problem. If sailing single handed and the sails become too much to handle then simply reef. Even if it's a F3-F4 there is no law that says you have to carry full sail. That should make a sportier boat more docile.

IMHO it's more important that the auto helm is good enough and that all controls can be handled effectively from the cockpit

 

[maby]

Absolutely not.

Spring from midships to dock, helm hard over steering away from the dock (which pushes the stern in) and motor ahead. Works without fail.

Perhaps your interpretation of 'steer away from the dock ' is not the same as mine?

A lot of modern large boats have twin rudders which means that the position of the helm while stationary has no effect. I used to follow your technique when we had our 33 footer, but with the 43, it would not help.

 

[Fantasie 19]

So back to the OP's question.. according to this thread you could single hand any length of boat..

The question I think you need to ask is "why"?

Is the Pegasus failing in some way? Space? Speed? Boring?

If it isn't why change? My experience is the bigger the boat the more of a faff it seems to be to go sailing.. the maintenance is greater, the bills are bigger, the time required is greater...

 

[Bobc]

Indeed. Why anyone thought twin rudders was a good idea on a cruising boat is beyond me. Fashion I guess.

A lot of modern large boats have twin rudders which means that the position of the helm while stationary has no effect. I used to follow your technique when we had our 33 footer, but with the 43, it would not help.

 

[Paul_S123]

Ohhh that is good, very good!

I use the flexible pipe to make the loop bit but to use a more rigid pipe to give you some extra reach sounds pure genius.

I have just renewed the water pipes on my boat so I've had various lengths of pushfit pipe left over.

I put them into the skip last weekend .

Bummer...

________________________

The piece of pipe definitely is great. Longer the better, I am stuck at a metre as that's as much as I can 90 degree away from the boat without the spring line being too long on my particular dock cleat to the end of the berth...if that makes sense.

 

[Paul_S123]

So back to the OP's question.. according to this thread you could single hand any length of boat..

The question I think you need to ask is "why"?

Is the Pegasus failing in some way? Space? Speed? Boring?

If it isn't why change? My experience is the bigger the boat the more of a faff it seems to be to go sailing.. the maintenance is greater, the bills are bigger, the time required is greater...

I would like to give you a great answer...but honestly, I think it must be a vanity issue. I have never really liked the pegasus, I am an inexperienced sailor though, so it's not like I've outgrown it speed or excitement wise, and as the whole crux of the thread is regarding single handing, it obviously has enough space. Only leaves vanity, or perhaps overcompensating for other things lol.

What I don't want to do, is exactly what you describe...more faff and can't be bothered to go. This is the reason behind starting this post.

 

[pyrojames]

.....

Spring from midships to dock, helm hard over steering away from the dock (which pushes the stern in) and motor ahead. Works without fail.
...

You had me for a moment there. I was thinking why I don't use this technique, because it does on paper look perfect.

It only fails when you have a boat with an offset prop and therefore has no prop wash over the rudder. (Or twin rudders, not an issue with classics!) CdG will just turn in to the pontoon and spring off.

 

[maby]

You had me for a moment there. I was thinking why I don't use this technique, because it does on paper look perfect.

It only fails when you have a boat with an offset prop and therefore has no prop wash over the rudder. (Or twin rudders, not an issue with classics!) CdG will just turn in to the pontoon and spring off.

Oh, it fails with a central prop and twin rudders too - I can assure you! I followed John's approach for years, then we bought our current boat and I tried it in a lock - and ended up parked diagonally across it!

 

[RupertW]

It does depend on the boat though. The 35s5 has a deep blade-like keel and a big main, and will screw-up into wind big-time in a gust, which is not a characteristic you want in a singlehander. In my view, a boat with a big genoa, a smaller main, and a long-ish fin would be much better suited.

I find its about learning to sail the boat you have. Although not extreme by today's standards at all I did find our Jeanneau 42.2 masthead rig would screw up into the wind in a gust - and the Med is gusty.

So now we sail with reduced main and more jib as the wind builds unless hard on the wind, and drop the main altogether when wind aft of 90 degrees above 15-20 knots. The boat now sails flatter and faster than before and the autopilot copes easily.
Different on a short windy sail fully crewed but actively steering and trimming adds less speed than you'd think unless genuinely concentrating as in a race.

 

[Tranona]

It does depend on the boat though. The 35s5 has a deep blade-like keel and a big main, and will screw-up into wind big-time in a gust, which is not a characteristic you want in a singlehander. In my view, a boat with a big genoa, a smaller main, and a long-ish fin would be much better suited.

Not sure I agree with this, Having gone from a boat with a biggish genoa and smaller main to one with a big main and smaller jib and find it much easier. Mains are much easier to control and reduce area, particularly if you have in mast, ans smaller jibs make tacking easier. agree about the longer keel - however the Beneteau was built with more than one type of keel, including a wing keel.

 

[BelleSerene]

Some of the comments about size and the desirability of being able to get from cockpit to pontoon quickly to moor up makes me wonder whether people are trying to tie up larger boats in the way you might come alongside with two crew and a small boat.

It's been alluded to on this thread by some, but when I bring our 39' boat along side I'm only interested in getting ONE line ashore at first. I don't even leave the centre cockpit or wheel.

+1. (The centre cockpit sounds nice!)

In our aft cockpit twin helm 39', that first line for me is usually a stern breast - I'm usually lassoing a pontoon cleat with a bight from the shoreside quarter - just so that I'm within reach of my strongest 'crew' which are the throttle control and the helm. I usually then motor forwards against that aft line, steering towards the dock to bring the bow in, which allows any amount of time to walk calmly to the bow and lasso a pontoon cleat from there for a bow breast. I then drop a bowline in another line over a pontoon cleat, usually from around amidships, bring the line under the guardrail to (usually) the stern, tension it and tie the spring aboard which also pulls the stern conveniently right in - and repeat for the sharp end of the boat. Engine off - and the boat is properly secured before I even think of stepping ashore and out of control of her.

What's important to me is that I'm not putting myself in jeopardy, I stay within reach of throttle and helm which are many times more effective at controlling the boat than yanking on some warp - and if I should want to bug out for any reason, I'm not hostage to some knot secured on the pontoon.

If a tide is running at all strongly, then to avoid having to fight its effect on the bow with the engine after attaching a stern breast, I'll reverse into the tide or else reverse-ferryglide across it into the berth so that once that stern breast is on, the tide is holding the boat to the dock while I attach the other lines. And tide against rudder is a far easier way to position the stern hard in than yanking on a warp.

The only real difficulty comes if I must moor to a strong offshore wind. If motoring forwards and inwards against the stern line won't counter the windage on the bow (and usually it does - you just wait for the bow to inch its way in under power), then at least as the stern is secured from the boat rather than from the pontoon I can quickly release it as I lose the fight to keep the bow in, and exit to try again or somewhere else. John Morris' and others' midships cleat is a sure winner in this situation - but on my boat I would have to leave the cockpit controls for that critical first step, which I find too high a price to pay.

 

[BelleSerene]

Not sure I agree with this, Having gone from a boat with a biggish genoa and smaller main to one with a big main and smaller jib and find it much easier. Mains are much easier to control and reduce area, particularly if you have in mast, ans smaller jibs make tacking easier. agree about the longer keel - however the Beneteau was built with more than one type of keel, including a wing keel.

I would like to learn from this so to avoid Fred Drift I've posted a new thread on how to balance a reefed genoa against a reefed main. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...enoa-amp-mainsail-reefs&p=5852693#post5852693

 

[john_morris_uk]

A lot of modern large boats have twin rudders which means that the position of the helm while stationary has no effect. I used to follow your technique when we had our 33 footer, but with the 43, it would not help.

You had me for a moment there. I was thinking why I don't use this technique, because it does on paper look perfect.

It only fails when you have a boat with an offset prop and therefore has no prop wash over the rudder. (Or twin rudders, not an issue with classics!) CdG will just turn in to the pontoon and spring off.

Oh, it fails with a central prop and twin rudders too - I can assure you! I followed John's approach for years, then we bought our current boat and I tried it in a lock - and ended up parked diagonally across it!

In that case may I suggest a short line from the quarter... assuming there's a long enough pontoon to come alongside. offset prop, twin rudders - it makes no difference as the boat will be pulled alongside. Just be careful if there's a strong current flowing through the mooring, as if you end getting the keel sideways so the current, you can end up in trouble.

 

[Daydream believer]

Absolutely not.

Spring from midships to dock, helm hard over steering away from the dock (which pushes the stern in) and motor ahead. Works without fail.

Perhaps your interpretation of 'steer away from the dock ' is not the same as mine?

I deleted my post after I had written it because I realised i may have miss interpreted others meaning of steer away from the dock. Unfortunately you were too quick for me & quoted it

I assumed that if you were mooring on the port side you would be steering as if you were going to turn to port if not actually tied to anything. That in my mind would be wrong
Then I wondered if you meant that you would be steering as if turning to starboard if not tied up. That of course would be correct- on my boat at least
Because it could be interpreted differently I deleted the post. As far as I am concerned one needs to kick the stern in otherwise the tendency for the bow to dig in & the stern pull out would be worse
I actually do not find the practice that successful on my boat as it still kicks the stern out. Especially as soon as I let the tiller go it will swing over & I would not have time to faff about tying it or looping bits of string over it; but if it works for others then what works for them is the way to go & I would not argue otherwise

 

[dylanwinter]

on the other hand you can just buy a boat that is a good size for single handing and not worry anymore about coming into a dock - drive into the spot and rely on the fenders to soak up any gentle bumps. If the bow kisses the front then no harm done with a three tonne boat. I am full admiration for the mobo boys with all that windage - gotta hand it to them - most of them are good at what they do

 

[chubby]

lots of good advice on close quarters handling, one thing I haven`t noticed but maybe haven`t read every single post is whether bow thrusters help: not at all, occasionally, quite often or all the time/frequently, does it help push you alongside whilst securing or equally get off a berth? any ideas, particularly if long keel!

 

[maby]

lots of good advice on close quarters handling, one thing I haven`t noticed but maybe haven`t read every single post is whether bow thrusters help: not at all, occasionally, quite often or all the time/frequently, does it help push you alongside whilst securing or equally get off a berth? any ideas, particularly if long keel!

I try to avoid using the bow thruster too much - they can (and do!) fail without warning and it's nice to know how to do it "the man's way" - but they certainly make life a lot easier on a deep keel boat - can't comment on the effect on a long keeler....

 

[agroundagain]

My first post here.... I've started single-handed this year with two short trips. The first went really well and so did the second until it ended with me moored alongside the boat opposite while I winched myself across to my mooring. This was a little embarrassing but once I'd calmed down all was good. In answer to the original question... my 31 footer was about 31 ft long and fine on my first go but grew to 1000ft on my second. I will keep trying. Some good tips in this thread

 

[Tranona]

lots of good advice on close quarters handling, one thing I haven`t noticed but maybe haven`t read every single post is whether bow thrusters help: not at all, occasionally, quite often or all the time/frequently, does it help push you alongside whilst securing or equally get off a berth? any ideas, particularly if long keel!

Depends entirely on the situation. i had one fitted to my new boat because there is little space between the rows in our marina and my old 37 was a handful, particularly singlehanded.

The two main uses are holding the boat straight while reversing in to the berth. There is about 1 1/2 boats length in which to turn and get straight to reverse and the thruster is useful for making the turn while almost stationary and keeping the bow from getting blown downwind while moving slowly. The other use is bringing the bow back in line if it gets blown off before I pick up the bow line.

Essentially i feel confident berthing with precision single handed. Back into the berth until the stern fender touches the walkway, hook on a stern line. Out of gear then walk round the boat picking up all the other lines. If the bow gets blown off (with a northerly wind like today) before I get there, quick burst of the thruster brings it into line. Can also be used to keep the boat away from the pontoon when leaving. Once you have one and learn how to use it you will wonder how you ever managed without, particularly if you are shorthanded and averse to acrobatics when mooring.

 

[FullCircle]

Indeed. Why anyone thought twin rudders was a good idea on a cruising boat is beyond me. Fashion I guess.

I have a lift keel, hence the twin rudders. Actually, my keel is 8 feet long, so acts like a long keeler as well.
I usually to manage to land without clutching a sheaf of insurance claim blanks.