Singlehand...how big is too big?

[dylanwinter]

greatly enjoying the Chutzpah from the big boat boys who are prepared to swallow the big bills that go with solo yacht giant-ism

this is, in my opinion, the ideal boat for a single hander - anything bigger is just more stuff than one man could ever need

 

[stav]

greatly enjoying the Chutzpah from the big boat boys who are prepared to swallow the big bills that go with solo yacht giant-ism

this is, in my opinion, the ideal boat for a single hander - anything bigger is just more stuff than one man could ever need

Agreed.

 

[pyrojames]

While I pretty much agree, I sometimes wish I had a boat that could be genuinely steered astern!

 

[jimi]

I was replying to the comment that bigger boats just sit in the water, they don't! I singlehand a Moody S38 and as others have said a reliable autopilot is a must

 

[Birdseye]

So practice teaches you how to predict, exploit and compensate for the other forces on a boat - but not windage?

To the contrary - practice also teaches you about windage which is mostly far less of an issue as the boat gets bigger. Basic physics. Inertia goes up with the cube of length whilst windage goes up in proportion to length. Mind you inertia also means that is more difficult to fend off a big boat that does get out of control

But at the risk of repeating myself:
1/ as size goes up so do weights. How strong are you?
2/ Bigger boats are more stable platforms all things being equal, but you need this because there is further to go from the cockpit to moor up or anchor for example. The biggest issue I have single handing my boat is time taken getting out from behind the wheel and onto the side decks to secure against a pontoon or to handle the anchor
3/ A decent autopilot is a must and by that I mean something that will handle the boat in 30kn which in turn implies a decent sized rudder and a balanced hull shape. A soap dish hull combined with a slim spade rudder will give problems. The issue here is that you need to get food, navigate pee rest etc all while the boat is moving so the boat has to be able to look after itself..
4/ Above somewhere in the 30 - 40 ft region you start to get more problems simply finding a mooring and single handed you have more of an issue at the end of a long day in going on further because there is nowhere to stop. I once nearly came a cropper after 24 hours on the helm when I couldnt, in this case because of weather, find anywhere to stop.
5/ hull shape and rudder shape come into this whole question. A drop keel boat with a light and wide sterned hull and a spade rudder will be far more difficult to single hand than something like a Vancouver 34 or Tradewind.

 

[jac]

greatly enjoying the Chutzpah from the big boat boys who are prepared to swallow the big bills that go with solo yacht giant-ism

this is, in my opinion, the ideal boat for a single hander - anything bigger is just more stuff than one man could ever need

I think boats like that are fine for the committed single handed or single handed who occasionally takes 1 person along.

The issue I think is the variability of crew sizes. I will say with numbers between 1 and 5 crew. I have had up to 8 on board on a short trip so whilst something up to 30 foot is great for the single hander, it becomes an issue when you suddenly have lots to cram on. I think the issue is that we expect put boats to be jack of all trades when we really need to decide what we want them to be masters at.

 

[maby]

...
5/ hull shape and rudder shape come into this whole question. A drop keel boat with a light and wide sterned hull and a spade rudder will be far more difficult to single hand than something like a Vancouver 34 or Tradewind.

That needs to be qualified slightly - boats like the Vancouver are pretty self-stable because they are long-keeled unlike the modern fin keeled BenJenBavs - which is great when you are under way in open water - but the same stability can become a real pain for close quarters maneuvering and mooring when they can be a pig to steer. So, it's swings and roundabouts - yes, a long keeler can be easier to handle while you are at sea, but make single handing in the marina pretty nerve wracking...

 

[rwoofer]

greatly enjoying the Chutzpah from the big boat boys who are prepared to swallow the big bills that go with solo yacht giantism

To shrink down to my current 20 footer I just had to accept it won't be able to stand up.

Curiously enough I've learnt that the best size boats for me are either around 20 feet, where I live outside in fair weather or 40 foot plus when I can live inside. I thought a 28 footer would work, but the reality is that I still need to live outside, such are the issues that come with my 6'6" height...

 

[Kukri]

greatly enjoying the Chutzpah from the big boat boys who are prepared to swallow the big bills that go with solo yacht giant-ism

I have owned a 37ft gaff cutter for thirty years; not always single handed but often; I thought I would be happy with a 25 footer but I wasn't. Now looking at another 37 footer, so I suppose that is the size that I like.

It is fair to say that knowing that I have a brace of strapping six foot plus sons who like sailing with Dad when they are around influences this, as does the thought that I enjoy the challenge of keeping a bigger boat on a tight budget.

 

[jpcarter30]

My 30ft was a piece of urine out on the water but I nearly dismantled the jetty once trying to get her back in. How we laughed. After that my eldest lad was called upon for docking duties. 25ft would be managable single-handed , I imagine.

 

[dylanwinter]

To shrink down to my current 20 footer I just had to accept it won't be able to stand up.

Curiously enough I've learnt that the best size boats for me are either around 20 feet, where I live outside in fair weather or 40 foot plus when I can live inside. I thought a 28 footer would work, but the reality is that I still need to live outside, such are the issues that come with my 6'6" height...

I hope you have discovered the advantages of the fishing umbrella companionway cover. On Katie L I can stand up while I cook

 

[john_morris_uk]

Some of the comments about size and the desirability of being able to get from cockpit to pontoon quickly to moor up makes me wonder whether people are trying to tie up larger boats in the way you might come alongside with two crew and a small boat.

It's been alluded to on this thread by some, but when I bring our 39' boat along side I'm only interested in getting ONE line ashore at first. I don't even leave the centre cockpit or wheel. As I prep the boat (usually motoring in under autopilot) I rig a line from the centre cleat with a large bowline in the end. I come along side and with the aid of the boat hook drop it on a cleat on the dock. I then motor ahead slowly and put the helm over (steering away from the dock). Even with wind etc pushing you away from the dock the boat will drive herself in and end up sitting with engine running pinned against the pontoon.

This technique has been described on here many times before, but all this talk of windage on big boats and 'time to get from the cockpit to moor up' made me wonder if some might not have tried it.

 

[Daydream believer]

... until the wind catches the bow .....

The wind will catch the bow no matter how many crew if you just sit there & wallow.
I cannot help feeling that some people just do not know how to berth a boat. Or at least practice enough.
One just needs to assess the situation & make allowances. Not just wind but a lot of marinas can have strong cross tides & these can be just as difficult If you do not look for them on the approach first. Tide will often have a greater effect on a larger yacht than the wind

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted

 

[john_morris_uk]

Mooring like that will always kick the stern of my boat out as the bow will go inwards if I do nothing . Are you sure you did not mean " steer in towards the dock" to push the stern in

Absolutely not.

Spring from midships to dock, helm hard over steering away from the dock (which pushes the stern in) and motor ahead. Works without fail.

Perhaps your interpretation of 'steer away from the dock ' is not the same as mine?

 

[jac]

Agree. The Beneteau is a powerful and lively boat and would perhaps not be a good start to single handed sailing. Nothing wrong in principle with single handing a boat of that size, but some boats lend themselves better to the task than others, both the type and the way they are laid out. So a more docile predictable steady boat with well sorted controls is more manageable.

The point re controls is well made but I would take issue with large sail area being a problem. If sailing single handed and the sails become too much to handle then simply reef. Even if it's a F3-F4 there is no law that says you have to carry full sail. That should make a sportier boat more docile.

IMHO it's more important that the auto helm is good enough and that all controls can be handled effectively from the cockpit

 

[Paul_S123]

John, the technique you describe for docking is how I dock too. I have a powerboat as well, and find getting from the cabin to the cockpit to attach the line can allow me to get blown off a bit. I have seen people use the boathook/loop, but find for me what works best is a line attached to the midships cleat, then I ran the line through a pvc pipe (about a metre long), then through a piece of clear hose which forms the loop. Between my arm....a bit of leaning...and the pvc pipe, I can still loop the line onto the dock cleat up to about 8 ft away. Gives me a 99.9% chance of getting the loop on the cleat. Even when I have crew, I still prefer dock and attach the lines myself. Being my powerboat is high sided and light...it gets blown off quite a bit, I have recently cheated and fitted a bow thruster and find between the thruster and the midship spring line contraption...docking singlehanded in even pretty extreme conditions is fairly easy. I rigged a similar docking line on the Pegasus and use it to great effect too.

I second his technique of steering away from the dock, this does bring the stern in, the line brings the bow in, after a few times you can easily dock, people come running to help pull you in, I sit on the side and just wait for the boat to kiss the dock. It then remains in place until you attach the rest of your lines.

Many thanks for everyone's comments. I have been reading them with interest.

 

[shaunksb]

then I ran the line through a pvc pipe (about a metre long), then through a piece of clear hose which forms the loop. Between my arm....a bit of leaning...and the pvc pipe, I can still loop the line onto the dock cleat up to about 8 ft away. Gives me a 99.9% chance of getting the loop on the cleat.

Ohhh that is good, very good!

I use the flexible pipe to make the loop bit but to use a more rigid pipe to give you some extra reach sounds pure genius.

I have just renewed the water pipes on my boat so I've had various lengths of pushfit pipe left over.

I put them into the skip last weekend .

Bummer...

________________________

 

[Bobc]

He's right you know. We use this all the time and it works every time.

Absolutely not.

Spring from midships to dock, helm hard over steering away from the dock (which pushes the stern in) and motor ahead. Works without fail.

Perhaps your interpretation of 'steer away from the dock ' is not the same as mine?

 

[john_morris_uk]

John, the technique you describe for docking is how I dock too. I have a powerboat as well, and find getting from the cabin to the cockpit to attach the line can allow me to get blown off a bit. I have seen people use the boathook/loop, but find for me what works best is a line attached to the midships cleat, then I ran the line through a pvc pipe (about a metre long), then through a piece of clear hose which forms the loop. Between my arm....a bit of leaning...and the pvc pipe, I can still loop the line onto the dock cleat up to about 8 ft away. Gives me a 99.9% chance of getting the loop on the cleat. Even when I have crew, I still prefer dock and attach the lines myself. Being my powerboat is high sided and light...it gets blown off quite a bit, I have recently cheated and fitted a bow thruster and find between the thruster and the midship spring line contraption...docking singlehanded in even pretty extreme conditions is fairly easy. I rigged a similar docking line on the Pegasus and use it to great effect too.

I second his technique of steering away from the dock, this does bring the stern in, the line brings the bow in, after a few times you can easily dock, people come running to help pull you in, I sit on the side and just wait for the boat to kiss the dock. It then remains in place until you attach the rest of your lines.

Many thanks for everyone's comments. I have been reading them with interest.

I teach and examine power boat handling as well and I agree that many yachtsmen don't appreciate the windage problems large power boats have. A short line off the quarter to motor against can be effective (and easy to drop on from the afterdeck/swim platform) but getting down from the flybridge and then back to the throttles isn't easy!