single line or at the mast

[petethetreat]

I'm fitting a new mast on my Contessa 32 soon and can't decide wether to change to single line reefing or keep the system I have now which is all at the mast. I know the pros and cons of both but the good point of each system seem to even up the bad points so I'm on the fence. Most of my sailing is single handed.

Let the forum decide!!

Cheers

 

[H4B]

IMHO single line can be a mess . I have the reefing clew pennants to the cockpit and so I have just one trip to the mast to hook ss rings onto rams horn. All winching done in cockpit. Its a system that works well for me , single handed or crewed.

Cheers

 

[Gin]

have you considered twin line reefing?

It does mean an extra line/clutch per reef but no going forward and no complicated linkages or friction issues

 

[Krusty]

When single-handing, the convenience of operating most things from the cockpit has its attractions, but from experience I suggest you give top priority to reliability, and that usually means simplicity! It is probably simpler to have the boat sail herself on a starboard tack close reach for a couple of minutes to let you go to the mast than sort out the muddle that complex line systems can become.
I have first and second reef lines running through the boom to exit near the mast straight to a boom-mounted winch; the third line runs externally so that I can get straight down to third reef in seconds, whatever foul-up might occur to reefs one or two: that has been invaluable more than once when hit by vicious weather on a black night!
Two features that are fundamental to quick and reliable reefing, in my opinion, are
first having s/s rings (large enough to take two fingers) attached to each luff reef cringle by strong tape/webbing: second to persuade the sailmaker to space the luff slides above and below the cringles such that the rings can reach the hooks without removing any slides from the track.
On my boat, also a 32-footer, the standard time for dropping any reef in at the mast (from letting go haliard to clew pulled down and luff tight again) is thirty seconds. I reckon that is convenient.

 

[ColinHuggins]

Ah me, if only Santa would pop a Conti in my stocking . . .
Seriously, chartered a big Bav for R the Is and on the pre-race jolly we were exhausted hauling miles of string - it had been rigged for short-handed sailing = single lines. But bypassing the first cringle left a static pennant inside the boom and all that moved was the part pulling down the leech cringle. Less friction of course. And repeated for the second slab.
Now that might give you the choice, eh?
(Incidentally, 3rd slab outside everything for instant action sounds a brilliant idea.)

 

[bobgoode]

May I propose:
1st reef single line in boom
2nd reef double line
3rd reef double but outside boom
Seems to offer best of all worlds

 

[Malcb]

Definitely single line for me. With the reefing line running through blocks stitched to the sail the friction problem is virtually eliminated. OK, there is a fair amount of string in the cockpit, but that can be coiled and hooked out of the way.

I can put a reef in less than a minute, also I can shake a reef out quickly and if necessary put it back in fast.

But I do sail single handed and my side decks are very, very narrow.

 

[PhilipH]

First reef is s/s cringle at mast with reefing pennant back to cockpit. Quick and easy - don't need a winch handle at the mast.
Second and third reefs single line with Lewmar ball bearing blocks well attached to the sail - brilliant. So what if there's a lot of rope in the cockpit - easily tidied and nobody lurching about a heaving deck in the dark (seems you always have to put in a couple of reefs at nighttime).

 

[ytd]

our bav has single line reefing for the first 2 reefs and I think it's great. Sure it takes some time and lots of winching but you can do it all from the cockpit and keep some tension on the main so there's no flapping sail or banging boom. I crewed the other day on a boat with reefing at the mast and it was awful. Boom banging around while you are trying to balance on the deck, let the halyard off and winch in the reefing line. Then it's backwards and forwards to the mast a few more times to get the right tension in the foot.

 

[Robin]

We have 2 line reefing on all 3 slab reefs, twice as many lines but each is half the length and there is minimal friction compared to single line. Most single line systems can only handle 2 reefs anyway that way inside the boom so either you go for 2 bigger reefs in the sail or you rig the 3rd reef externally to the boom. Two line works great for us just 2 of us in a big rigged 41 footer, quick and easy to reef or unreef from the cockpit. You do need 3 more clutches, organiser sheaves, mast base blocks but you don't need extra winchpower for the 3 tack lines as these are pulled in by hand under no load as the halyard is released.

Doing it all in the cockpit means reefing is done when you need to rather than absolutely HAVE to.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Traditional at the mast for me (you'd have guessed that anyway). Why? Far less likely to foul-up, and a foul up is what you least need when putting a reef in.

When single handed, I heave to before reefing, which makes life very civilsed.

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
Traditional at the mast for me (you'd have guessed that anyway). Why? Far less likely to foul-up, and a foul up is what you least need when putting a reef in.

[/ QUOTE ]

True only if ALL the reefing is done at the mast, too many have hybrid systems like the main halyard goes back or the clew pennants go back, in which case reefing is always a 2 person job or certainly much harder.

The 2 line system albeit with lots of strings is actually pretty foolproof and has much less to go wrong than with single line with it's complicated compensating blocks inside the boom. Actually thinking about it we only have 3 'extra' strings, those for the tack lines that replace the reef hooks, all the others are present in the basic set up, just not taken back to the cockpit. The only extra hardware is more blocks, organisers and clutches, the winch is required for both systems, just re-located for cockpit reefing.

On the Twister though I think I would agree with you, but a lot of racing Co32s will have some lines back already, maybe spi halyard, genoa halyard or pole lines so may have the coachroof winch(es) already. That was the case with our boat, the coachroof winches and clutches were already there, we just added extra clutches and organisers and re-allocated priorities, like the genoa halyard, spinnaker halyard and pole controls which are all now back at the mast.

 

[Danny]

[ QUOTE ]

True only if ALL the reefing is done at the mast, too many have hybrid systems like the main halyard goes back or the clew pennants go back, in which case reefing is always a 2 person job or certainly much harder.

[/ QUOTE ]I had a hybrid system on a previous boat which worked well (I inherited it - can't claim credit). The halyard went back to the cockpit but the pennants didn't. There was a jam cleat on the deck near the hayard with which to temporarily tension the halyard to stop the tack ring slipping off the hook before you get back to the cockpit and tension the halyard.

On my current boat I've a mixture of single lines for reefs 1 and 2 and two line for the third reef. I've never used the third reef in anger yet - well I've only had the boat 3 years /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif - but it all seems to work very well.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

With double line reefing it's normally possible, or with only minor mods, to be able to reef from cockpit or at the mast, in the unlikely event of a foul up no major issues. Theres not much extra gubbins between at the mast or in the cockpit to go wrong, a couple of extra pulleys that's it. All my reefing lines are outside the boom and although they can get snagged when raising the main this hasn't ever been a major issue for me and makes it cheaper and easier to install and much more serviceable.

Can't comment on single line reefing as I've never used it

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Vote for two line as well.... easy and effective...

Also, have led the second line at the luff down through all the spectacles, so that when you drop the second reef in, it kind of bags up the sail, and keeps it much tidier and safer....

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
With double line reefing it's normally possible, or with only minor mods, to be able to reef from cockpit or at the mast, in the unlikely event of a foul up no major issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes that is certainly the case with ours because we still have a reefing winch below the boom on the mast, still have the reef hooks and still have the built in jammers on the inner boom end which are held open now with a shockcord loop. We still use the mast winch anyway to pull in a flatter reef, in conjunction with a cunningham, also at the mast. I don't mind playing with flattener, cunninham or genoa halyard tension at the mast as that all happens in benign weather, it's when I might be required to get wet I would prefer to stay in the cockpit!

 

[Malcb]

[ QUOTE ]
The 2 line system albeit with lots of strings is actually pretty foolproof and has much less to go wrong than with single line with it's complicated compensating blocks inside the boom

[/ QUOTE ]

My single line system doesn't have complicated compensating blocks inside the boom for the very reason that if they cause a problem then they will invariably jam. The use of compensating blocks in the boom was IMO an unecessary complication.

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
My single line system doesn't have complicated compensating blocks inside the boom for the very reason that if they cause a problem then they will invariably jam. The use of compensating blocks in the boom was IMO an unecessary complication.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe there are size and loading issues here as well then because I believe the compensation blocks are needed on bigger sails, but I can't speak personally as I chose to avoid that possibilty on the advice of others when choosing our system. I think the proprietary single line systems from the boatbuilders or sparmakers do incorporate the compensating blocks however, hence why they can usually only accomodate 2 reefs and the third has to be external.

 

[fireball]

Don't you have the hybrid 2 line version ?? 2 lines whipped into a larger sheath so you only need one organiser slot and jammer per reef?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Was planning that route, but haven't yet whipped the two lines together..... so currently two line..... I find that the single clutch will jam both lines quite effectively!