Simple diesel engine sevicing quesions

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SimonFa

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I'm doing my first engine service now that I have time on my hands and have some simple questions that I hope the panel could help with:

1. I've just noticed that I have bought VS-3 oil instead of VS-2. I presume that's not a problem looking at the specs?

2. The guy who serviced it for me in the past always left the oil well above the max point. I forgot to ask him about it and wondered if I should do the same?

3. I bought my oil and fuel filters 12 months ago and kept them sealed with the intention of using them this year if they weren't needed for emergencies and then keeping this year's purchase as spares to be used next year. I noticed that the oil filter has a slight dent in it, is it compromised or could I still use it?

Thanks in advance,

Simon
 
I've no idea what those oils are so can't help with that one...... however, although it does no harm to have the oil a few mm above the max level, I would avoid having it any higher than that as it's reducing the air space in the crankcase, possibly over-agitating the oil supply and possibly leaving the oil level above the crankshaft oil seals which will exacerbate any slight leakage.

I assume that the slight dent is in the metal outer oil filer casing which won't cause a problem.

Richard
 
1. VS-2/VS-3 means nothing to me. Can you enlarge? The important spec is the API or ACEA rating.
For a full answer we'd need to know what engine you plan on putting it in, althugh most normally-aspirated yacht diesels are best on CD (hard to find) or CF-4. See here: https://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Oilforyachtengines.aspx

2. Your mechanic's advice may or may not be right for your particular engine, but as a rule of thumb it is definitely wrong. Overfilling with oil can cause more harm than underfilling. Unfortunately the dipstick on yacht engines isn't always a good guide, since the engine usually sits at an angle, fore-and-aft. So, unless the dipstick is dead centre in the sump, it will return a wrong reading. Beta recommend filling (from totally drained) with the recommended quantity of oil, making a note of the level on the dipstick, and then using this as your datum. That's the only way to be absolutely sure.

3. Providing it's just a little dent and nowhere near the mating surface, it's probably OK. If in doubt, get another.
 
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The 'Max' level on the dipstick is there for a reason.

I remember years and years ago when the then BMC had produced a car which was even more carp than usual for them. In the UK the engines were failing on a regular basis. On checking thay found the failure rate in Australia was minimal. Reason: In the UK the owners were carefully topping up the oil and then a bit extra to 'make sure'. Our cousins down south never checked the oil, so was not over filled. Solution - new dipstick with lower 'Max' mark
 
Be careful with dipsticks. As already explained they don't read accurately on a motor that is tilted but they also often have a slieve that holds them at the right height. This can be adjusted and sometimes it adjusts itself from a knock and so the dipstick reads wrong. The best way is to add the right amount of oil as per the book and then, if you can, adjust the dip stick to reflect the correct level.
 
SimonFa said:
I'm doing my first engine service now that I have time on my hands and have some simple questions that I hope the panel could help with:

1. I've just noticed that I have bought VS-3 oil instead of VS-2. I presume that's not a problem looking at the specs?

2. The guy who serviced it for me in the past always left the oil well above the max point. I forgot to ask him about it and wondered if I should do the same?

3. I bought my oil and fuel filters 12 months ago and kept them sealed with the intention of using them this year if they weren't needed for emergencies and then keeping this year's purchase as spares to be used next year. I noticed that the oil filter has a slight dent in it, is it compromised or could I still use it?

Thanks in advance,

Simon
Click to expand...

You dont say what engine !! but presumably a Volvo Penta as it sounds as though you have splashed out on Volvo oils as well!

40526.jpg


At least I guess you mean VDS-2 and VDS-3 They refer to the draining ( changing) intervals and are more relevant to operators or fleets of commercial vehicles where time in the service bay is time they are not earning

From VP website:
VDS-3 covers even more stringent requirements on piston cleanliness and bore polish compared to VDS-2, ensuring the durability and reliability of the engines. The high quality of VDS-3 oils allows in certain cases an increase in drain intervals.
Click to expand...

Most people go to Halfords, Tesco or Asda etc and buy their own brand diesel engine of of the appropriate SAE viscosity grade. (15W40 ?)

The oil should not normally be above the max mark............. but follow the instructions in the owners manual. Usually that's to check when the engine is hot, allowing a short time after stopping.
It's not significantly different to changing and checking the level in your car!


A small dent in the filter should be no problem so long as its not punctured or compromising a seam
 
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The big problem with overfilling, particularly as several others have said where the engine is not level, is that the big-end bearings may contact the oil surface, causing foaming. Oil drawn into the pump and bearings may then be aerated, which of course does the bearings no good at all as the oil film cannot support the loads being applied to it.

Volvo apply a 'one size fits all' policy when it comes to their oils. Reading Vic's extract from the VP website suggests that VDS-3 is intended for some of their high performance engines, probably turbo-charged mobo type engines. There is some evidence to show that using this type of oil in a low-performance normally aspirated yacht auxiliary engine is not to be preferred.
 
vyv_cox said:
The big problem with overfilling, particularly as several others have said where the engine is not level, is that the big-end bearings may contact the oil surface, causing foaming. Oil drawn into the pump and bearings may then be aerated, which of course does the bearings no good at all as the oil film cannot support the loads being applied to it.

Volvo apply a 'one size fits all' policy when it comes to their oils. Reading Vic's extract from the VP website suggests that VDS-3 is intended for some of their high performance engines, probably turbo-charged mobo type engines. There is some evidence to show that using this type of oil in a low-performance normally aspirated yacht auxiliary engine is not to be preferred.
Click to expand...

Turbocharged truck engines I believe!

FWIW VDS 3 meets API CI-4 and ACEA E7. specs. VDS-2 meets API CG-4, ACEA E3

Regarding the oil refill quantity The quantity in the manual is often/ usually the quantity required to refill an engine from dry. Useful perhaps to compare that to the dipstick indication when filling an engine after a major rebuild but a normal oil change seldom gets all the old oil out.

I have, until recently, always done all my own car servicing, probably well in excess of 150 oil changes. I dont tink I have ever managed to get the specified quantity of oil in before reaching the full mark.( except after major rebuilds). Usually around ¼ to ½ litre less
 
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VicS said:
FWIW VDS 3 meets API CI-4 and ACEA E7. specs.
Click to expand...

I have to say I like the look of API CI-4. It is a modern oil of course, so can be expected to have all the additives that modern engines need, but its TBN is only 8. Unfortunately all the versions of it that I have seen from several manufacturers also include compliance with many other specifications, several of which have far higher TBNs. I think if I could find one that is only to CI-4 I might try it.
 
SimonFa said:
I'm doing my first engine service now that I have time on my hands and have some simple questions that I hope the panel could help with:

1. I've just noticed that I have bought VS-3 oil instead of VS-2. I presume that's not a problem looking at the specs?

2. The guy who serviced it for me in the past always left the oil well above the max point. I forgot to ask him about it and wondered if I should do the same?

3. I bought my oil and fuel filters 12 months ago and kept them sealed with the intention of using them this year if they weren't needed for emergencies and then keeping this year's purchase as spares to be used next year. I noticed that the oil filter has a slight dent in it, is it compromised or could I still use it?

Thanks in advance,

Simon
Click to expand...

As others have said, I assume you mean Volvo Penta VDS 2 and VDS 3 oil grades. VP dealers all appear to be selling only VDS 3 and saying this supersedes VDS 2 and can be mixed with VDS 2

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
Thanks for all the responses, very helpful:

1. Yes I did splash on Volvo Penta oil. I didn't think to check their website when I did some research and it didn't show up in Google :( Looks like it should be OK but I think I'll give one of the dealers a call.

2. The engine is forward sloping towards the dipstick so that could be why the marine engineer I used had it on the high side. I decided to keep between the marks but at the top end. I'll have a word with him when I get see him.

3. I decided the dent is too close to a seal and for the price of an oil filter ......

Once again, many thanks for the prompt responses,

Simon
 
Agree with Plum - my TAMD61's specify VDS2, but Volvo have discontinued it and only now sell VDS3.

They assure me it's fully backwards compatible for my engines and can be mixed with VDS2.

The TAMD61 is a high performance turbo diesel, base unit is a truck engine. I'd check with Volvo, but it will be fine.
 
RichardS said:
I've no idea what those oils are so can't help with that one...... however, although it does no harm to have the oil a few mm above the max level, I would avoid having it any higher than that as it's reducing the air space in the crankcase, possibly over-agitating the oil supply and possibly leaving the oil level above the crankshaft oil seals which will exacerbate any slight leakage.

I assume that the slight dent is in the metal outer oil filer casing which won't cause a problem.

Richard
Click to expand...

I over-filled my Volvo 2003, and it simply wouldn't start. Removed oil to the Max mark, and it worked fine.
 
rosssavage said:
Agree with Plum - my TAMD61's specify VDS2, but Volvo have discontinued it and only now sell VDS3.

They assure me it's fully backwards compatible for my engines and can be mixed with VDS2.

The TAMD61 is a high performance turbo diesel, base unit is a truck engine. I'd check with Volvo, but it will be fine.
Click to expand...

SimonFa said:
Thanks for all the responses, very helpful:

1. Yes I did splash on Volvo Penta oil. I didn't think to check their website when I did some research and it didn't show up in Google :( Looks like it should be OK but I think I'll give one of the dealers a call.

2. The engine is forward sloping towards the dipstick so that could be why the marine engineer I used had it on the high side. I decided to keep between the marks but at the top end. I'll have a word with him when I get see him.

3. I decided the dent is too close to a seal and for the price of an oil filter ......

Once again, many thanks for the prompt responses,

Simon
Click to expand...

Here is the list of engines ( from VP's website) for which the VDS-3 oil is suitable :

2001, 2001B, 2001D, 2002, 2002B, 2002D, 2003, 2003B, 2003D, 2003T, 2003TB, AD31A, AD31B, AD31D, AD31D-A, AD31L-A, AD31P-A, AD31X, AD41A, AD41B, AD41D, AD41L-A, AD41P-A, AQ100, AQ110, AQ115A, AQ115B, AQ120, AQ120B, AQ125A, AQ125B, AQ130A, AQ130B, AQ130C, AQ130D, AQ131A, AQ131B, AQ131C, AQ131D, AQ140A, AQ145A, AQ145B, AQ151A, AQ151B, AQ151C, AQ165A, AQ170A, AQ170B, AQ170C, AQ171A, AQ171C, AQ175A, AQ190A, AQ200B, AQ200C, AQ200D, AQ200F, AQ205A, AQ211A, AQ225B, AQ225C, AQ225D, AQ225E, AQ225F, AQ231A, AQ231B, AQ240A, AQ255A, AQ255B, AQ260A, AQ260B, AQ271A, AQ271B, AQ271C, AQ271D, AQ280A, AQ290A, AQ311A, AQ311B, AQ60F, AQ90, AQ95, AQ95A, AQAD30A, AQAD31A, AQAD40A, AQAD40B, AQAD41A, AQAD41B, AQAD41D, AQD21A, AQD21B, AQD2B, AQD32A, AQD40A, AQD40B, AQD41A, AQD70B, AQD70C, AQD70D, D1-13 A, D1-13 B, D1-13F, D11-510 EVC-E2-B, D11-625 EVC-E2-B, D11-625 EVC-E2-B, D11-670 EVC-E2-B, D11-725 EVC-E2-B, D11-725 EVC-E2-B, D11A-A, D11A-B, D11A-C, D11A-C (IPS), D11A-D (670), D11A-D (IPS), D11A-E (670), D11A-E (IPS), D1-20 A, D1-20 B, D1-20F, D12C-A MP, D12D-A MP, D12D-B MP, D12D-C MP, D12D-D MP, D12D-E MP, D12D-F MP, D12D-G MP, D1-30 A, D1-30 B, D1-30F, D13-800 EVC-E2-B, D13-800IPS EVC-E2-B, D13-900 EVC-E2-B, D13-900IPS EVC-E2-B, D13B-A MP, D13B-B MP, D13B-C MH, D13B-C MP, D13B-D MH, D13B-E MH, D13B-F HE/KC, D13B-F MG, D13B-F RC, D13B-G MP, D13B-H MP, D2-40 A, D2-40 B, D2-40F, D2-55 A, D2-55 B, D2-55 C, D2-55 D, D2-55 E, D2-55F, D2-75 A, D2-75 B, D2-75 C, D2-75F, D3-110I-A, D3-110I-B, D3-110I-C, D3-110I-D, D3-110I-E, D3-110I-EVC-E-B, D3-110I-F, D3-130A-A, D3-130A-B, D3-130A-C, D3-130I-A, D3-130I-B, D3-130I-C, D3-140A EVC-E-B, D3-140A-D, D3-140A-E, D3-140A-EVC-E-B, D3-140A-F, D3-140I-D, D3-140I-E, D3-140I-F, D3-150I EVC-E-B, D3-150I-D, D3-150I-E, D3-150I-F, D3-160A-A, D3-160A-B, D3-160A-C, D3-160I-A, D3-160I-B, D3-160I-C, D3-170A EVC-E-B, D3-170A-D, D3-170A-E, D3-170A-F, D3-170I EVC-E-B, D3-170I-D, D3-170I-E, D3-170I-F, D3-190A-B, D3-190A-C, D3-190I-B, D3-190I-C, D3-200A EVC-E-B, D3-200A-D, D3-200A-E, D3-200A-F, D3-200I EVC-E-B, D3-200I-D, D3-200I-E, D3-200I-F, D3-220A EVC-E-B, D3-220A-D, D3-220A-E, D3-220A-F, D3-220I EVC-E-B, D3-220I-D, D3-220I-E, D3-220I-F, D4-180i EVC-E-B, D4-180i-B, D4-180I-C, D4-180i-D, D4-180I-E, D4-180I-F, D41A, D41B, D41D, D41L-A, D4-210A-A, D4-210A-B, D4-210i-A, D4-210i-B, D4-225A EVC-E-B, D4-225A-B, D4-225A-C, D4-225A-D, D4-225A-E, D4-225A-F, D4-225i EVC-E-B, D4-225i-B, D4-225I-C, D4-225i-D, D4-225I-E, D4-225I-F, D4-260A EVC-E-B, D4-260A-A, D4-260A-B, D4-260A-C, D4-260A-D, D4-260A-E, D4-260A-F, D4-260D-B, D4-260D-C, D4-260D-D, D4-260D-E, D4-260D-EVC-E-B, D4-260D-F, D4-260i EVC-E-B, D4-260i-A, D4-260i-B, D4-260I-C, D4-260i-D, D4-260I-E, D4-260I-F, D4-300A EVC-E-B, D4-300A-A, D4-300A-C, D4-300A-D, D4-300A-E, D4-300A-F, D4-300D-A, D4-300D-C, D4-300D-D, D4-300D-E, D4-300D-EVC-E-B, D4-300D-F, D4-300I EVC-E-B, D4-300I-A, D4-300I-C, D4-300I-D, D4-300I-E, D4-300I-F, D5A-B TA, D5A-T, D5A-TA, D6-280A-A, D6-280A-B, D6-280A-C, D6-280A-D, D6-280A-E, D6-280i-A, D6-280i-B, D6-280I-C, D6-280i-D, D6-280I-E, D6-300A EVC-E-B, D6-300A-F, D6-300D-F, D6-300I EVC-E-B, D6-300I-F, D6-310A-A, D6-310A-B, D6-310A-C, D6-310A-D, D6-310A-E, D6-310D-A, D6-310D-B, D6-310D-C, D6-310D-D, D6-310D-E, D6-310i-A, D6-310i-B, D6-310I-C, D6-310i-D, D6-310I-E, D6-330A EVC-E-B, D6-330A-B, D6-330A-C, D6-330A-D, D6-330A-E, D6-330A-F, D6-330D EVC-E-B, D6-330D-B, D6-330D-C, D6-330D-D, D6-330D-E, D6-330D-F, D6-330I EVC-E-B, D6-330I-B, D6-330I-C, D6-330I-D, D6-330I-E, D6-330I-F, D6-350A-A, D6-350A-B, D6-370A EVC-E-B, D6-370A-B, D6-370A-C, D6-370A-D, D6-370A-E, D6-370A-F, D6-370D EVC-E-B, D6-370D-A, D6-370D-B, D6-370D-C, D6-370D-D, D6-370D-E, D6-370D-F, D6-370I EVC-E-B, D6-370i-A, D6-370i-B, D6-370I-C, D6-370i-D, D6-370I-E, D6-370I-F, D6-400A EVC-E-B, D6-400A-E, D6-400A-E PS, D6-400A-F, D6-435D EVC-E-B, D6-435D-A, D6-435D-C, D6-435D-D, D6-435D-E, D6-435D-F, D6-435I SC EVC-E-B, D6-435I WJ EVC-E-B, D6-435i-A, D6-435I-C, D6-435I-D, D6-435I-E, D6-435I-F, D6-435I-TC-F, D7A-B TA, D7A-T, D7A-TA, D7C-B TA, D7C-TA, D9-500 R5 EVC-D-B, D9-575 R5 EVC-D-B, D9A2A, D9A2B, D9A2D, D9A2F, KAD300-A, KAD32P, KAD42A, KAD42B, KAD42P-A, KAD43P, KAD43P-A, KAD44P, KAD44P-B, KAD44P-C, KAMD300-A, KAMD42A, KAMD42B, KAMD42P-A, KAMD43P, KAMD44P-A, KAMD44P-B, KAMD44P-C, MD1, MD100A, MD100B, MD11C, MD11D, MD120A, MD17C, MD17D, MD1B, MD2, MD2010A, MD2010B, MD2010C, MD2010D, MD2020A, MD2020B, MD2020C, MD2020D, MD2030A, MD2030B, MD2030C, MD2030D, MD2040A, MD2040B, MD2040C, MD2040D, MD21A, MD21B, MD22A, MD22A-A, MD22A-B, MD22L-A, MD22L-B, MD22P-B, MD2B, MD30A, MD31A, MD31A, MD32A, MD3B, MD40A, MD5A, MD5B, MD5C, MD6A, MD6B, MD70A, MD70B, MD70C, MD7A, MD7B, TAMD102A, TAMD102D, TAMD103A-A, TAMD120A, TAMD120B, TAMD121C, TAMD121D, TAMD122A, TAMD122C, TAMD122D, TAMD122P-A, TAMD122P-B, TAMD122P-C, TAMD162A, TAMD162B, TAMD162C, TAMD162C-B, TAMD162C-C, TAMD163A, TAMD163P-A, TAMD165C-A, TAMD165P-A, TAMD22, TAMD22L-B, TAMD22P-B, TAMD30A, TAMD31A, TAMD31B, TAMD31D, TAMD31L-A, TAMD31M-A, TAMD31P-A, TAMD31S, TAMD31X, TAMD40A, TAMD40B, TAMD41A, TAMD41B, TAMD41D, TAMD41H-A, TAMD41H-B, TAMD41M-A, TAMD41P-A, TAMD42A, TAMD42B, TAMD42P-A, TAMD42WJ-A, TAMD60A, TAMD60B, TAMD60C, TAMD61A, TAMD62A, TAMD63L-A, TAMD63L-B, TAMD63P-A, TAMD70B, TAMD70C, TAMD70D, TAMD70E, TAMD71A, TAMD71B, TAMD72A, TAMD72P-A, TAMD72WJ-A, TAMD73P-A, TAMD73WJ-A, TAMD74A, TAMD74A-A, TAMD74A-B, TAMD74C-A, TAMD74C-B, TAMD74L-A, TAMD74L-B, TAMD74P-A, TAMD74P-B, TAMD75P-A, THAMD70B, THAMD70C, TMD100A, TMD100C, TMD102A, TMD120A, TMD120B, TMD121C, TMD122A, TMD162C-B, TMD22A, TMD22-A, TMD22B, TMD22-B, TMD22P, TMD22P-C, TMD30A, TMD31A, TMD31B, TMD31D, TMD31L-A, TMD40A, TMD40B, TMD40C, TMD41A, TMD41B, TMD41D, TMD41L-A, TMD70B, TMD70C, V8-380-C-B, V8-380-CE-B, V8-430-CE-B​
 
VicS said:
Here is the list of engines ( from VP's website) for which the VDS-3 oil is suitable :
Click to expand...

Might have been easier from them to list those that weren't :)

Mine's an MD2020D which is on the list.

vyv_cox said:
As I said earlier, for Volvo, one size fits all. Not too many of the oil companies, nor the API specs, would agree.
Click to expand...
Its obvious I need to learn a lot more about this subject.
 
vyv_cox said:
As I said earlier, for Volvo, one size fits all. Not too many of the oil companies, nor the API specs, would agree.
Click to expand...

I have to say that I agree with Volvo. It's pretty much all just automotive oil and even the viscosities overlap to a large degree. In general the only reason why engine manufacturers recommend specific oils is because that is the brand / type (mineral/synthetic) / viscosity that they have tested their engine with during development. The costs of long term testing with the range of oils on the market is so huge that they test with one or two and call it a day.

The Volvo approach is more enlightened ..... although I bet their recommended oil is only the Volvo brand so even their enightenment is somewhat self-serving! :)

Richard
 
This subject has been argued so many times on the forums that I have better things to do that go through it all again. Every oil company makes a big range of oils for all sorts of duties ranging from lightly used normally aspirated small engines to heavy duty turbocharged behemoths. Many still make oils to old specifications like API CA and CC for specialist users. I can assure you that if they could make just one oil that would suit every engine they would do so. The costs and disruption generated by many of these are just not worth the trouble, which is why many of the majors have handed over production of the less-used lubs to small companies. There are huge differences in the grades, just as an example the additive content of API CD is well under 5% of the total whereas several high performance lubricants contain nearly 30% additives and it could be argued that some synthetics are 100%(!)
 
vyv_cox said:
This subject has been argued so many times on the forums that I have better things to do that go through it all again. Every oil company makes a big range of oils for all sorts of duties ranging from lightly used normally aspirated small engines to heavy duty turbocharged behemoths. Many still make oils to old specifications like API CA and CC for specialist users. I can assure you that if they could make just one oil that would suit every engine they would do so. The costs and disruption generated by many of these are just not worth the trouble, which is why many of the majors have handed over production of the less-used lubs to small companies. There are huge differences in the grades, just as an example the additive content of API CD is well under 5% of the total whereas several high performance lubricants contain nearly 30% additives and it could be argued that some synthetics are 100%(!)
Click to expand...

I'm just agreeing with Volvo. :)

Richard
 
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