sigma 33 or what?

[halyardmonkey.]

Dear All,

After spending some time crewing and researching I have become smitten with Sigma 33's and they are just about in my price range, especially if I can get a bit of a discount.....

Although, now I am wondering if I haven't limited myself a little and wonder if there are other boats out there I should also be considering.

I enjoy the racing scene and spend most weekends either dinghy or yacht racing but don't want to be limited to this alone. I ideally I would like to cruise with one or two others......

My budget is around 20k with money in the bank for the inevitable repairs and other bits and bobs.....

What do you think? Have I limited my search and should I be considering other boats too?

H.M

 

[Tranona]

That sort of money will only get you a well worn boat in that class. It is very competitive and can be expensive to keep up. There are all sorts of other performance orientated boats around that size that sell for a lot less because they don't have the name.

 

[halyardmonkey.]

That sort of money will only get you a well worn boat in that class. It is very competitive and can be expensive to keep up. There are all sorts of other performance orientated boats around that size that sell for a lot less because they don't have the name.

Any that you would recommend? It sounds like you think there has been a good marketing job done with Sigma's?

 

[Tranona]

The list is almost endless. Yes Sigma was, and is very popular as they are good boats with an active class racing scene, therefore prices stay up.

Do a search for boats meeting your criteria so you can get an idea of what you can get for your money. Racing with that size of boat was very popular in the 1970 -80's so there are plenty still around.

 

[Judders]

I'm awarew that there are a lot of Sigma 33s going for sufficiently less than your budget to make it worth considering, but I reckon you would have to blow the lot and more to be competitive. Howver if it is just club racing and some cruising then fill your boots! Lovely bopats. Nicely built. A friend was observing on Saturday how many Sigmas (33s and others) in the yard had their original gelcoat and looked far better than boats twenty years younger. Good seaboat without being too heavy. If you can find one of the CC crusing spec, they tend to be in better nick and are still competitive.

Other options, well I would say this wouldn't I, having just bought one, but the Hunter Impala will cost less, you'll have enough left in the budget to spec up, it's quicker than the Sigma, cheaper to run and the class is reviving. Downside is it's a bit cosy down below but that said, ours completed a three month cruise to Norway a couple of years ago.

There are a lot of nice 70s cruiser racers around for the budget. A Nic 33 would come in at that price having had all the jobs done and whilst dated, Iromguy has won RORC Class 4 two years on the bounce.

How about a Javelin 30? Gorgeous lines and cheap. Lacks a double bunk, otherwise SWMBO and I would probably have bought one. Same might go for the Dufour Arpege which is half the budget at most.

Albin Ballad! Oh my word, for that money you could have a very nice ALbin Ballad and what a boat that is. I know where there was recently a very well found one for less than your budget (PM me if interested, in the meantime I'll try and track down the details). Cracking boats, as quick as a Contessa 32, probably better laid out and just as well built, but without the cult following.

There was a Yamaha 33 on the market in Pompey for a while which appears similar to a Sigma but I never investigated to any great extent.

You may have guessed that this is my area? I've got a share in an Impala whilst SWMBO succeeded in persuading her father into a Centurion 32 (the pinacle of the breed but rather above budget) last year after we'd loved them for years.

There dont appear to be many UFO34s about at the moment, which is a shame. There are some 31s but they can be a bit cramped in the bunks, which is a crying shame.

The Sigma is a slightly more modern design than most of these with its filled in scoop on the back. There are other designs similiar but none were as successful. A quick search will find all sorts that are less well known but worth a look.

Enjoy!

How important is the racing and at what level do you wish to race?

 

[halyardmonkey.]

Ha, its funny, you have just named all the boats I like and would consider owning in one post....... Very interested in Ballads but have never been on one, only seen them slip by from a distance....... Would certainly consider one if in good fettle as a hunter impala, have been kept honest by those bad boys on a much larger boat before, but the accommodation is the only issue I would say with that choice.
My racing isn't that serious, usually sail IRC in club regatta's and such but its certainly more about getting out there and having a go.... Also, round the island and the odd cross channel race is what I am thinking about.......
That was a lovely Nicholson 33 that came up recently, but was gone by the time I picked the phone up!!!!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Rival Yachts

I would also direct you towards the Rivals for sale here:-

http://www.rivalowners.org.uk/noticeboard/forsale/forsale.htm

The 32 and 34s can represent outstanding value for money and have been raced quite successfully under handicap. However they are more known as cruising boats. I believe that a couple have won such races as the AZAB.

Many hulls were laid up under Lloyds Supervision, to what was considered best practice at the time and have stood the test of time very well. Something to consider.

 

[Quandary]

Some contentious comments above, particularly the suggestion that the Impala is faster than a Sigma 33, I have raced on both and campaigned one of the the latter for many years and I can NEVER recall finishing behind either of the Impalas in the same handicap fleet. With regard to the cost of campaigning a Sigma this comes down simply to the cost of good sails essential when wanting to win in a competitive One Design fleet; when handicap racing it is nothing like as critical and we could still win using our second best spinnaker, main or no.1 as we liked to save our good stuff for One Design. Nowadays with the change away from dacron it is no longer essential to have new sails every year. The rest of the boat including the rig is tough and needs no more spending than on any cruiser racer.
If you have never raced in a strict one design fleet you have really missed out, no excuses are available, you have to start in front and then stay there, you learn more about tuning and tactics in one season than handicap racing for a lifetime. When you turn out in a handicap fleet it is then so easy, no need to polish the bottom, lots of room at starts and marks and hardly any shouting.
I sail a Finngulf 33 now after 12 years with a Sigma 38 but I still yearn for my Sigma 33 but up here the fleet has dwindled away from forty boats to less than ten only half of which turn up for any event. The Finngulf is just the nearest thing I could find, and while quite a bit faster due to its longer waterline, slim hull and much bigger rig it is certainly less tunable for varying conditions.

 

[Judders]

Some contentious comments above, particularly the suggestion that the Impala is faster than a Sigma 33, I have raced on both and campaigned one of the the latter for many years and I can NEVER recall finishing behind either of the Impalas in the same handicap fleet.

My tongue is only half in my cheek on that one. I've raced two different Impalas in mixed fleets and finished ahead of all the Sigma 33s on both occasions; indeed on the first occasion the only other Impala in the race finished ahead of them as well whilst on the last occasion, at least one other Impala did and I believe the boat in third may also have been an Impala (and this is on the water, naturally we all murdered them on handicap). I'll recheck the results.

That said, I am very much aware of the fact that much of this is down to the quality of sailors now sailing Impala's in the Solent. The chaps in their late twenties and early thirties bying Impala's as syndicates have some of the very best sailors around amongst their number. Everybody knows Ben Meakins and Adrian Cudmore on Polly but seriously look out for the others. We know we are going to be very much more up against it in the One Design events than in handicap races.

 

[Quandary]

I use CYCA ratings as a fair indicator of relative performance, it has been running for about 50 years, lists 1300 boats and is continuously updated.
Currently it rates a Sigma 33 OOD allowance at 15.25 mins. and the Impalas at 16.75.
If you are able to take almost one and a half mins. per hour out of a properly sailed Sigma 33 by finishing in front of it, I salute you.

 

[Judders]

I use CYCA ratings as a fair indicator of relative performance, it has been running for about 50 years, lists 1300 boats and is continuously updated.
Currently it rates a Sigma 33 OOD allowance at 15.25 mins. and the Impalas at 16.75.

It's roughly the same difference on IRC with Impalas rating around 0.888 and Sigmas .915 in 2012. Looking back at the results from the race I was thinking of last year, only we finished ahead of the Sigmas on the water, another Impala was ahead of them (and us) until a late but catestrophic navigation error.

Now whether the Sigma's in question were properly sailed, I couldn't say, but the good news for potential purchasers of either is that they are always close on the water and since there will always be a few Sigmas at every regatta, you should always have one to race against either way.

If you are able to take almost one and a half mins. per hour out of a properly sailed Sigma 33 by finishing in front of it, I salute you.

Thank you but I must qualify this by saying that my personal contribution on the first event was minimal, indeed I was very much the weak link having committed the cardinal sin of turning up with a hangover. On the second occasion, all I did was navigate and perhaps grind in the odd sheet.

 

[halyardmonkey.]

I would also direct you towards the Rivals for sale here:-

http://www.rivalowners.org.uk/noticeboard/forsale/forsale.htm

The 32 and 34s can represent outstanding value for money and have been raced quite successfully under handicap. However they are more known as cruising boats. I believe that a couple have won such races as the AZAB.

Many hulls were laid up under Lloyds Supervision, to what was considered best practice at the time and have stood the test of time very well. Something to consider.

Hmmmm, the rivals all seem to a bit out of my price range...... I can't imagine they would come down £7-8k........ Nice yacht though!

 

[Judders]

Now, as may be obvious, I am off work today, so allow me to indulge in spending your money for you:-

First up: Hubbah and Bubbah! It's a good job this wasnt available a few weeks ago as I think I'd have even more trouble getting this home. Might be more of a rocket ship than you are really looking for and ofcourse being at the extreme end of a design bracket, it is probably more outdated than a more conservative Sigma, even though its younger.

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/li...access=Public&listing_id=28704&url=&imc=pg-fs

Now are looks important? Because this baby if fugly, but you are going to sail it, not make love to it. It'll be quick and with bags of accomodation (on account of the built up sides which detract from the looks. The build quality will be second to none. I've never sailed one but I'd certainly have tried one if SWMBO could be persuaded that the rowaway factor is more than just aesthetic.

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/li...axi-95-2413089/United-Kingdom&boat_id=2413089

This has been around for a while. Leaves plenty in the budget. I know nothing about them but it's a great looking boat and looks like it ought to shift, especially to windward.

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/li...ort-30-2281664/United-Kingdom&boat_id=2281664

For all the great boats that David Thomas designed, it's the Liz 30 that the Master chose for himself. I've never sailed one but SWMBO and her Dad both sailed on the one owned by DTDB himself and she never stops extoling the virtues of it either. They're reasonably priced, probably on account of there being only really four berths but they're quick and yet another example of why I am wrong to say that he never sesigned to a rule because the Liz was a successful 1/2 Tonner if I am not mistaken?

This one has been on the market for a while, maybe its because its labelled wrongly, maybe there is something wrong with it.

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1970/Elizabethan-9-mtr-2042365/United-Kingdom

 

[Judders]

Hmmmm, the rivals all seem to a bit out of my price range...... I can't imagine they would come down £7-8k........ Nice yacht though!

They're lovely. I've never sailed one but just look at a 32 out of the water and follow the maxim that if a hull looks right, it usually is right. There are usually plenty of 32s about within your budget. The 34s are rather a lot more.

 

[lotusman]

Albin Ballad! Oh my word, for that money you could have a very nice ALbin Ballad and what a boat that is.

I would second the recommendation of Albin Ballad, and would also suggest Albin Nova. A couple feet longer than the Ballad, similar performance to a Sigma 33 but better manners. Not many about in this country but worth the search. I cruised one extensively for ten years and raced occasionally.

 

[armchairsailor]

Whatabout the Sadler 32 thread?

 

[halyardmonkey.]

Now have spent all after noon on yacht world.... The possibilities seem so endless when you get into it.... But I keep coming back to the same boats...... Although a really nice Liz 33 just caught my eye....... Completely different boat than I wanted but in such nice condition that I could but stop and stare!

Sadlers, seem like too much money for what they are, as so contessa's. Don't get me wrong, I love the boat and their look but they always want too much money for them in my opinion........

 

[SHUG]

Back to the OP!!!
Sigma 33 is an excellent boat. Had one for 12Years and cruised and raced in equal measure. Some early ones may be "dished" at the mast foot from efforts to flatten baggy Dacron sails and the floor frames are suspect as they were softwood encased in fibreglass.They generally list to starboard since the fuel and the galley are on that side and are not counterbalanced by the batteries.
Finally they do seem to hold their value as the good ones are continuously uprated.
I read an article recently where a Sigma33C was bougt by a student and modified to become a race winning yacht.
Go for it!!

 

[halyardmonkey.]

Never came across and Albin Nova before- just looked this yacht up...... Very nice!!!!!

 

[Judders]

Back to the OP!!!
I read an article recently where a Sigma33C was bougt by a student and modified to become a race winning yacht.
Go for it!!

Forgive me if I am wrong, but if I recall correctly, it wasn't just any article, it was in the RORC Yearbook and the race was the Double Handed Fastnet.