SIBS 17

[maby]

One of the reasons I went was to research boats in the large dinghy to weekender range and that area was very under-represented so I was a bit frustrated. The wayfarers were there, the Laser Stratos not so that makes me favout the former.

It was also noticable that many manufacturers seem to leave their smaller boats behind too - no Arcona 340, Hanse 31/34 etc.

If it is too expensive to bring the smaller boats then they need to look at reducing the costs

I do suspect that a lot of the problem is that staging the show has become a major business in its own right. I assume that the major exhibitors have to pay a high price for the pitch they occupy. The presence of the show must bring a lot of money into Southampton and, perhaps, the city council should organise the show themselves, making a relatively nominal charge for a pitch rather than leaving it up to a major commercial show organisation to run it at a profit?

 

[flaming]

I do suspect that a lot of the problem is that staging the show has become a major business in its own right. I assume that the major exhibitors have to pay a high price for the pitch they occupy. The presence of the show must bring a lot of money into Southampton and, perhaps, the city council should organise the show themselves, making a relatively nominal charge for a pitch rather than leaving it up to a major commercial show organisation to run it at a profit?

The show is run by the British Marine Federation, a not for profit organisation and all profits from the Show are invested back into the industry in the form of support, training, export advice, lobbying (think Red Diesel...) etc.

 

[flaming]

On the whole, I think ex dinghy sailors do make better yacht sailors, as long as they learned to sail dinghies really well. Those who don't spot that may just lack the skills themselves to appreciate the difference. Dunning-Kruger effect and all that. How many Olympic keelboat sailors started on yachts and worked their way down? I am sure that if I could coax Flaming onto my boat for a day he would find ways to tweak sails and improve performance of which I know nothing.

Kind of you to suggest that, but it would rather disprove your hypothesis though as I am not, and never have been, a Dinghy racer. The only dinghying I've ever done was a couple of Topper courses when I was about 10.

 

[Cantata]

...................and, perhaps, the city council should organise the show themselves....................

:disgust: oh please no, anything but that, local councils just aren't up to running anything...........

 

[maby]

The show is run by the British Marine Federation, a not for profit organisation and all profits from the Show are invested back into the industry in the form of support, training, export advice, lobbying (think Red Diesel...) etc.

Really? The message I got from dealers was that the cost of a pitch was becoming so high that they were reconsidering whether or not it was worth attending.

 

[Angele]

Kind of you to suggest that, but it would rather disprove your hypothesis though as I am not, and never have been, a Dinghy racer. The only dinghying I've ever done was a couple of Topper courses when I was about 10.

Shh! Don't say that. You may just have ruined your forum credentials as "Mr Racer", as some appear to think you cannot be a "real sailor" unless you grew up in a Mirror/Laser....

 

[bedouin]

Is the Laser Stratos still being manufactured? I know they stopped building the unballasted version years ago, but I can't see the keel version on the Laser website, either.

Well there you go now - had they been at the show I might have discovered that for myself!

It's a great shame - I think they are excellent dinghies, particularly with the keel.

 

[flaming]

Really? The message I got from dealers was that the cost of a pitch was becoming so high that they were reconsidering whether or not it was worth attending.

I used to work for the Boat Show arm of the federation. Yes really.

The increasing costs have far more to do with the increasing costs that it takes to put on a show of that kind than any type of profiteering. All aspects of both Shows, including financials are approved by a board made up of representatives of member companies. Any attempt to make excessive profits from the Shows by bumping up the pitch cost unjustifiably would be given very short shrift!

 

[flaming]

Shh! Don't say that. You may just have ruined your forum credentials as "Mr Racer", as some appear to think you cannot be a "real sailor" unless you grew up in a Mirror/Laser....

Not a reputation I have ever thought justified! I'm just a Solent Hack.

 

[bedouin]

I used to work for the Boat Show arm of the federation. Yes really.

The increasing costs have far more to do with the increasing costs that it takes to put on a show of that kind than any type of profiteering. All aspects of both Shows, including financials are approved by a board made up of representatives of member companies. Any attempt to make excessive profits from the Shows by bumping up the pitch cost unjustifiably would be given very short shrift!

What is causing the costs to go up then?

At present they do seem at risk of getting caught in a spiral of rising costs to exhibitors and visitors leading to reduced numbers of both (as I guess happened to LIBS). They need to get a handle on that if they want to thrive.

 

[JumbleDuck]

and don't forget dozing in the cockpit on a warm afternoon and throwing dinner parties in the evening! When visiting the new boats at SIBS, my first test is always to check that I can lay comfortably full length in the cockpit and fit half a dozen guests round the table. If it passes those two criteria, then it is worth looking at it.

That's why I bought a Drascombe Longboat ... it's a dinghy in which I can practice those essential cruising hospitality skills. Have another peanut, old boy.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Kind of you to suggest that, but it would rather disprove your hypothesis though as I am not, and never have been, a Dinghy racer. The only dinghying I've ever done was a couple of Topper courses when I was about 10.

It wasn't your dinghy skills, or lack of them, but your probable knowledge of what all these bits of string do and how to use them to best effect. I don't know what I don't know, and I think that probably goes for everybody who thinks they can sail quite well enough, thank you.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The increasing costs have far more to do with the increasing costs that it takes to put on a show of that kind than any type of profiteering. All aspects of both Shows, including financials are approved by a board made up of representatives of member companies. Any attempt to make excessive profits from the Shows by bumping up the pitch cost unjustifiably would be given very short shrift!

I organise a stand at a Big Four Day Show - non-marine. We pay about £1,000 per square metre to be there, and the organisers need industry subsidies of many millions per year to break even. Free tickets, mind you, but nevertheless I think most people who haven't done it have no idea how expensive it is to put on something like SIBS.

 

[flaming]

What is causing the costs to go up then?

At present they do seem at risk of getting caught in a spiral of rising costs to exhibitors and visitors leading to reduced numbers of both (as I guess happened to LIBS). They need to get a handle on that if they want to thrive.

It's 5 years since I left, so I don't know the current situation in detail. But costs such as insurance, security, marquee costs etc were rising fast when I was there.

I would also question (without having access to the rate card) whether the squeeze is coming as much from the cost to exhibit as from the diminishing Sales at the Show in the internet age. Whenever I have spoken to exhibitors I still know, or former colleagues, the feeling is that those who attend the Show as a brand building exercise are very pleased, but those businesses who are only looking at how much cash they take over the course of the 10 days are understandably being squeezed by visitors simply googling for the best prices on site.

So in my view the Show will survive, but will be much more about introducing kit to the consumer, and less about leaving with a boathook under your arm...

 

[Greenheart]

I think they are excellent dinghies, particularly with the keel.

Me too, very versatile. The RS Venture (still built) seems to be in the same area, but I suspect its popularity suffers from association as a trainer for the physically disabled...

...although I think it looks great, not too safe to be entertaining.

I haven't been to SIBS this year, but is there a 'Try dinghy sailing' event? I think there was in 2014...or whenever I last went. RS Sailboats might sell quite a few ballast-keel Ventures, off the strength of letting several visitors sail around without getting a wetting. Sorry if that idea has already been covered in this thread.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would also question (without having access to the rate card) whether the squeeze is coming as much from the cost to exhibit as from the diminishing Sales at the Show in the internet age. Whenever I have spoken to exhibitors I still know, or former colleagues, the feeling is that those who attend the Show as a brand building exercise are very pleased, but those businesses who are only looking at how much cash they take over the course of the 10 days are understandably being squeezed by visitors simply googling for the best prices on site.

I was talking yesterday to a neighbour who runs a car parts business and is off to a big show soon. He says that attendance doesn't come near to breaking even, but is essential to maintaining sales throughout the year. Basically, if he doesn't go customers think he has closed down.

 

[bedouin]

Me too, very versatile. The RS Venture (still built) seems to be in the same area, but I suspect its popularity suffers from association as a trainer for the physically disabled...

...although I think it looks great, not too safe to be entertaining.


I haven't been to SIBS this year, but is there a 'Try dinghy sailing' event? I think there was in 2014...or whenever I last went. RS Sailboats might sell quite a few ballast-keel Ventures, off the strength of letting several visitors sail around without getting a wetting. Sorry if that idea has already been covered in this thread.

I am not familiar with the Venture but it looks good - I was rather deceived by the low freeboard so it doesn't look as stable as the Stratos but the 3 centreboard/keel options gives a good choice. It seems to have the option of a large stern locker too that I think is useful on a boat to be used in coastal waters.

I think there was 1 dinghy included in the "try a boat" at Southampton this year but I didn't even try to book - perhaps I will next year

 

[ex-Gladys]

There were two "dinghies" in the entry bit at SIBS, which had a dagger board with bulb config on the Vandercraft stand -the K1 and K2...

 

[Javelin]

Heading to the show tomorrow
With my punter hat one I'm Looking forward to seeing the new Hanse and spotting clever ideas I can incorporate and swmbo will be looking and remarking about why we don't have such and such on our boat.
With my boat builder hat on I'll be giving some of the trade suppliers a bit of a kick up the proverbial and some will get a pat on the back and I may find a couple of new ones.

 

[Javelin]

Just got back from sibs.
4hrs from there to Southwold with a stop for a bite to eat.

Overall I think the show was pretty good tbh.
Swmbo and I are on the look out for a 43-ish footer in a couple of years so we enjoyed looking at all the boats in that range.
The Rustler was by far the best fitted out boat we saw, by a fair margin, its just a shame it has such a dated hull and deck design.
The shock to me was I thought the Hanse 40 something was internally the worst fitted out, with both swmbo and I were reminded strongly of MFI.
The Dehler was also a bit disappointing in that it seemsq to have lost those distinct Dehler touches that the older ones had.
It was also noticeable that there was a lot of commonality with the Hanse such as the exact the same cockpit table and wash board system, to be expected I guess as they are under the same ownership so I guess any future Moody's will have the same.
What I did like about the Dehler was the very sexy Pontos Winches which were owner specified.

Had a look at the Ben and Jeanneau's, which were airy and spacious and appeared to be well put together on a superficial level but in a sea way I'd want far more grab handles and the galley on the Jeanneau was obviously designed with a marina berth in mind.
The Arcona's were interesting without being exceptional.
X Yachts, X43 was a case of nice legs, shame about the face.
Possibly a bit harsh as of all the boats I saw this is the one I'd most like to sail away on.

The brand new HR44 was very nice.
The hull shape is much more modern but the layout reminded be strongly of the Oyster 435.
I think this particular boat was rushed as there were bits that frankly just weren't finished properly but overall the fit out below was very good, though the wood work on the Rustler was still some way ahead.

The trouble is we have some specific requirements and getting a boat to match those requirements is proving to be harder than we thought.
So we've come away thinking that maybe we have unrealistic expectations.

Maybe a X43 fitted out by Rustler would do the trick.