shower sumps specs and operation Q

  • Thread starter Thread starter vas
  • Start date Start date
vas

vas

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 Jun 2011
Messages
8,217
Location
Volos-Athens
Visit site
vaguely remember either Hurricane or NickH posting a nice and clear pic of their shower sump setup with filters et al. Needless to say I couldn't find it on a quick search I did since I don't remember the context of the thread it was on...
Anyway, since I'm trying to get hold of one such box, I had a look last week at a few of them and realised one major issue that I'm not happy with:

the covers DON'T seal on these boxes; what I mean is that if the pump fails/blocks/whatever, the water level within the sump will raise and overflow to the bilges. OK, you grp guys probably don't mind, but I do want to have dry bilges under the cabins.
So am I missing something, do all sumps operate like that?

What I'd expect it to do is be sealed, rise level so that the water appears on the lowest drain (obviously a shower tray) This way you are informed of the problem and take action. Mind, taking any action will mean that the bilges will be filled with water :rolleyes: but at least you can do some planning and controlling...

I obviously can get one of the better designed ones (whale fe) and place silicon where the pump cables exit the whole tray, but I'd have thought that there would be properly designed ones around.

so any ideas?

cheers

V.
 
The Thread was "Grey Water"

See http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?335666-Grey-water

And this is what I wrote at the time.

On my boat Aquastar 48 all the sinks go straight over the side by gravity.

Showers have to pump up from tray and so originally drained into a little tupperware box about the size of a biscuit tin with a plactic lid held down by four screws, In said box was a plastic coarse filter like a toilet roll but in plastic mesh an open flip up float switch and a 500gph highspeed ITT pump.

This whole contraption gets coated in a soap and hair slime so is a joy to work on.

Very occasionally the system once cleaned worked for a day or two.

1/ Normally either the float switch jammed down , pump would not come on and box would overflow into the bilge, coat bilge in hair soap slime and get pumped out by the bilge pump.

2/ Or the float switch would stay on after water level dropped and have to be turned off at switch board.

3/ Or the float switch would occasionally work perfectly and the pump would be rendered inoperable by one pubic hair or a grain of sand.

4/Tried replacing pump, then float switch , then whole box.

Eventually did away with the float switch and fitted an in line switch in the shower area so that when you you had a shower you turned on the pump when you had a shower and turned off the pump when you got out, worked tolerably better but still problem number 3 occurred and the pump would be rendered inoperable by one pubic hair or a grain of sand.

Firstly the little red Jabsco, 500 GPH is a misnomer it might pump 500gpg down hill but anything upwards and it dropped off steeply to a fraction of that, see the performance curve that comes with the pump, then think constrictions like a small hose, one way valves bends etc.


As the shower only didnt work when you needed to use it when staying on the boat and it required me rolling back the heavy carpet, removing the deck hatch and leaning down 2ft into the bilge and passing up buckets of dirty water to an unhappy assistant to dispose of wrapped in a towel with shampoo in her hair, after the first 10 or 20 times of doing this the novelty wears off.

This season I chucked plastic box and contents into skip, I havent felt so much satisfaction at ditching a piece of equipment since I skipped my Simpson and Lawrence SL 400 toilet after dismantling it one holiday four times in two weeks ( That stopped me biting my finger nails for a while).

I have replaced said box with a Whale Gulper I think its the 220.

http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/pro...ey-waste-pumps

This is in line from shower drain to over the side discharge so a continual hose from shower to pump to one way valve to over the side discharge just above the waterline.

It works a treat it can run dry, still switched on and off from the shower compartment and keeps the shower tray dry, I have not had a problem since fitting in May, various weekends and two weeks holiday with four people using the same shower appears to handle everything it gets including the occasional short and curly.

The only problem is it sounds like you have a large frog in sthe shower when it works, I suppose thats why they call it a gulper, you cant hear it from outside boat, so a small price to pay for domestic harmony.

It works a treat, very happy and appears to be job done.

Fit A Gulper Job done!
 
They are a complete pain in the @rse these things, I've tried all remedies from a bigger box and have replaced the filter and both the float switch and the pump more than once, what I have learnt and I've become an expert in "dead rats" (or that's what it looks like when all the hair is caught up not mine I will add) it likes to be lubricated so by putting olive oil once a month down the plug hole followed by warm water has helped, it has kept it all lubricated and it has lasted a while and has not jammed up, I do the same with the toilet to keep that lubed as well. you can buy "head lube" but at £6 a tiny pot olive oil works out cheaper. Also I think it goes off a lot and any electrical connection that goes on and off repeatedly will carbon up and stop working, I think this is caused as some discharge hoses go up hill slightly before exiting the boat, so the float switch empties out the water and some runs back and those stupid one way valves last days, so I put a proper one way valve in and a U in the pipe. I also keep a spare pump, switch, and one way valve, although I've only replaced the pump once for a better one and the float switch twice and a couple of one way valves, by having a spare they are there if you need them and as this subject comes up a lot on here I guess spares are a good thing.
 
Also fitted a Whale Gulper 220. Works great, if a bit noisy. Turn on (switch on wall) after shower, to drain shower tray. No problems so far and seems not to mind the odd hair etc or running dry for short time. Sound changes upon dry run so you know when to switch off.
 
thank you all for your experience/suggestions/comments,

by the number and speed of replies one can easily understand that it's an issue that hurts...

OK, looks like I'll go for an 8lt
http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/pr...&Product_ID=10038&FriendlyID=Grey-waste-tanks

with a gulper220. Even bolts on it's side for tighter installations.
I like the floating switch on the tight seal lid with a neoprene seal.

Seems perfect for what I want!
Probably still get the one sink outlet straight out (it's easily done) so that's going to be 3inlets one out.

Unfortunately a quick search revealed that I can get the gulper locally but none seems to stock the WHALE CK1514 kit (8lt, 24V 220 gulper and floater swich on lid)
:(

Looks like I've got a long day on Fri when I'm going to spend my day driving around Athens searching all marine/chandlery shops in the city...

I wonder if mail order from the UK would make sense, any cheap deals from you guys up there?
checked that asap is out of stock and a couple of others I know don't have them.

cheers

V.
 
SolentPhill said:
So with those boxes do you put a float switch inside the box?
Click to expand...

there's an electronic floater thingy option and another one that sits on the bolt on cover. Too tired to check how it works, but there's two cables coming out of it so that you can route them to the externally mounted gulper 220.

V.
 
Just as an update, I've taken some good advice here and scrapped my old box in favour of the suggestions here, however if I fill the sink with water and pull plug, the water goes and comes up the shower,

I think it's an air issue as water can't push the air,
I have 3 ideas
Make the pipe from the box longer to shower
Put an air valve in
Pull plug out slowly

Any other good suggestions?
 
hi there,

bought myself a 16lt whale grey water tank, waiting for the gulper pump to fit it, but from reading your post I've got the following:

a. DONT lengthen the pipe! runs should be as short as they can possibly be and without any areas that loop low and water stays in...
b. are you sure you've used one of the top inlets for the shower sump? Or are you due to height restrains using a bottom inlet?? If the later, I'd fit a vent on a top inlet going up way above the waterline ;)

cheers

V.
 
yes I used the big top going in at the top and a small at the bottom for the pump. what I have is a 3 way set up just before the box I have a sink in the bathroom the shower, and the sink in the galley all joined by a 3 way connector just before the box and then 1 pipe going into the box. so as the water leaves the sink which is high is going into the 3 way joiner and slowly going into the box but as its not pouring in the pressure of the higher water is pushing it up the plug hole of the lower part which is the shower.
 
SolentPhill said:
yes I used the big top going in at the top and a small at the bottom for the pump. what I have is a 3 way set up just before the box I have a sink in the bathroom the shower, and the sink in the galley all joined by a 3 way connector just before the box and then 1 pipe going into the box. so as the water leaves the sink which is high is going into the 3 way joiner and slowly going into the box but as its not pouring in the pressure of the higher water is pushing it up the plug hole of the lower part which is the shower.
Click to expand...

Phill,

cant you change this setup and have the sink in a separate intake?
It's obviously the bottleneck in the 3 way connector doing all this :(

The Whale tank has lots of inlets, so should be easy to use them, maybe need a longer pipe from the sink to get there but should be easy

cheers


V.
 
The problem is that the shower box is located under a seat, the pipes all come from another area and the go through a small hole, if its a question of just making another hole it maybe possible.
 
about to wire/plug my 16lt whale grey water tank. It looks like this:

grey_waste_tank.jpg


I also have a couple of gulper220 (yes I know I should have a 320 for the 16lt tank) but screws on the tank fit (just need a small plate for the 3rd screw at the back) so I'll work with that.

Question is, do I connect one of the bottom 3/4 inch in/outlets to the gulper, or shall I do a mod with a top hard pipe going down the tank a la black water diaphragm pumps?
Am I being too cautious?
Likely to have more smelling issues from water left behind in this method?

Further, do I use loops in the piping from the sinks and showers to the tank (in order to keep a bit of water in there that keeps odour away) or is this a recipe for smell due to permeation of the pipe walls?
I'm getting reasonably good quality pipes from a v.knowledgeable guy in Pireaus.


your opinions please!

cheers

V.
 
well I thought all my troubles were sorted when I put this in, it has been working fine like all the others but now this has packed up, the pump works fine and works on manual but when on Auto its stopped, I contacted the supplier who is sending me a new sensor, and I have bought a spare one for £30 in case it goes again.
 
Vas,

Good timing on your recent shower sump post, as i too am in the position of needing to change one of our grey waste tanks, and am seriously considering the same set up as you, albeit with the 8ltr box and a 220 gulper. This kit works out to approx £200.00 by the time you pay vat and delivery. The only downside is that it still gives you a 'grey waste' box to clean out as well as the un-reliability of a float switch - plus I don't think the whale box has any form of hair filter/strainer (please correct me if i'm wrong). Did you consider fitting one of these?

GreyIC[1].jpg

http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/product.aspx?Category_ID=10020&Product_ID=10040&FriendlyID=Grey-IC

I appreciate i could buy a standard 220 gulper and fit a switch in the shower for about 1/2 the cost, but the current arrangement is automatic, and i'd rather keep it the same (plus i can't be bothered to retro fit a switch :( )

The only downside is that i only have a 1 input to the manifold, i did call Whale tech. to ask if the other input could be blocked off, but they seem to think this will cause an airlock, so the option will be to either put a 'Y' splitter on the shower drain hose and feed both inputs from the same source, or have the other input as a 'vent' rising high in the bilge above waterline.

The Grey IC pump is actually a gulper 320 with a 'brain' suitable controlled from a some tpe of flow sensor in the manifiold.

Considering it's the next size up this setup comes in at approx £230....which to me, whilst still costly considering the typical setups you can buy, solves the problem associated with the grey waste boxe / float switch / soap scum for the relatively small extra against the grey waste box idea.

I think this is a 'newish' product so i wondered whether it was available when you were researching, or did you consider it but dismiss for any reason?


i look forward to your feedback

thanks Vas



Scott
 
SBUK said:
Vas,

Good timing on your recent shower sump post, as i too am in the position of needing to change one of our grey waste tanks, and am seriously considering the same set up as you, albeit with the 8ltr box and a 220 gulper. This kit works out to approx £200.00 by the time you pay vat and delivery. The only downside is that it still gives you a 'grey waste' box to clean out as well as the un-reliability of a float switch - plus I don't think the whale box has any form of hair filter/strainer (please correct me if i'm wrong). Did you consider fitting one of these?
Click to expand...

Scott,

the switch of the whale grey water tank is NOT I repeat NOT your typical float switch, it's an electronic thingy with no moving parts, so should be more fail safe....

no hair filter as in theory and I think it should work in practice, the diaphragm pump can suck hair.

Doesn't mean you can skip the cleaning of the tank (somehow, got to think of a way...) at regular intervals but I doubt there's a better TANK based solution around.

mind, my 16lt tank should be mated to a gulper 320, but I got a 220 and will built a small bracket to reach the third rear securing bolt of the tank (320 has 3mounts, 220 has got four)

SBUK said:
The Grey IC pump is actually a gulper 320 with a 'brain' suitable controlled from a some tpe of flow sensor in the manifiold.

Considering it's the next size up this setup comes in at approx £230....which to me, whilst still costly considering the typical setups you can buy, solves the problem associated with the grey waste boxe / float switch / soap scum for the relatively small extra against the grey waste box idea.

I think this is a 'newish' product so i wondered whether it was available when you were researching, or did you consider it but dismiss for any reason?


i look forward to your feedback

thanks Vas



Scott
Click to expand...

I have one definite shower, one possible, and two sinks, there's no way I could fit all that into an IC pump...
So yes, I saw them, but didn't bother.

hope it helps a bit

V.

PS. still not used the system, got to install new fresh water pipes all around before I can do some tests, but I'm confident it works
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

zoidberg
Bilge pumping
Replies
5
Views
229
Dockhead
Dockhead
K
Alternator and fuel pump Volvo Penta 3.0 GLP-D
Replies
2
Views
220
Kwanza
K
Bigplumbs
Service ????? If it ain' broke dont break it
2
Replies
36
Views
1K
Momac
Momac
P
Volvo TAMD 41P-A replacing injectors and sleeves
Replies
0
Views
121
pawl
P

Share this page

Top