Shouting skippers ?

KenMcCulloch said:
My good comrade 'awol', see above, has frankly a bit of a reputation as a shouty sort of skipper but also as a very experienced and very competent boat driver (cue blushes from shouty bloke).
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Qui, moi? Competent?

As I tried to explain above, my voice raises when my poor wee brain is already pretty fully occupied on my own motor tasks/information processing and has difficulty in passing the correct impulses to my vocal chords to clearly articulate what the crew should have already done or noticed. Strangely, complete cockups don't cause this - when the spinnaker went up sideways (for the 2nd week in a row!), flew for a bit and then split asunder, there was no shouting, just a bemused interest by the skipper in whether there was enough connection left to get the halyard back - mind you, it was the old chicken chute, not the new yin and we were already miles ahead of the rest of the fleet. However, when the simplest of instructions are not being complied with and the outcome is important (to me, anyway), I have been known to bring the perpetrators parentage and IQ into question.

There is a close inverse relationship between the pro-active abilities of the crew and the volume of my voice and, just in case they are reading this, I am happy to say that my present winter series crew don't get shouted at much, if at all - in fact, I tend to heap more invective on myself for failing to do their efforts justice. I do have the problem, though, that I tend not to be aware when or if I am shouting and afterwards certainly don't remember doing it. Luckily, my crew are more than assiduous in reminding me of any indiscretions in this area and some of them actually come back!

As for cruising, which I guess is the subject of most of the posts, it is meant to be relaxing and there is almost always enough time to plan and prepare and stay calm. You'll note the "almost always" just in case Ken knows otherwise! And I certainly know better than to shout at my wife or daughters - anything less than a "would you please be so kind to ..." is met with stony indifference that can last for days and even extreme politeness tends to lead to a discussion as to whether the action is really necessary.
 
awol said:
Qui, moi? Competent?

As I tried to explain above, my voice raises when my poor wee brain is already pretty fully occupied on my own motor tasks/information processing and has difficulty in passing the correct impulses to my vocal chords to clearly articulate what the crew should have already done or noticed. Strangely, complete cockups don't cause this - when the spinnaker went up sideways (for the 2nd week in a row!), flew for a bit and then split asunder, there was no shouting, just a bemused interest by the skipper in whether there was enough connection left to get the halyard back - mind you, it was the old chicken chute, not the new yin and we were already miles ahead of the rest of the fleet. However, when the simplest of instructions are not being complied with and the outcome is important (to me, anyway), I have been known to bring the perpetrators parentage and IQ into question.

There is a close inverse relationship between the pro-active abilities of the crew and the volume of my voice and, just in case they are reading this, I am happy to say that my present winter series crew don't get shouted at much, if at all - in fact, I tend to heap more invective on myself for failing to do their efforts justice. I do have the problem, though, that I tend not to be aware when or if I am shouting and afterwards certainly don't remember doing it. Luckily, my crew are more than assiduous in reminding me of any indiscretions in this area and some of them actually come back!

As for cruising, which I guess is the subject of most of the posts, it is meant to be relaxing and there is almost always enough time to plan and prepare and stay calm. You'll note the "almost always" just in case Ken knows otherwise! And I certainly know better than to shout at my wife or daughters - anything less than a "would you please be so kind to ..." is met with stony indifference that can last for days and even extreme politeness tends to lead to a discussion as to whether the action is really necessary.
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Sometimes shouting happens on a race boat and it is not always the skipper. However in general shouting boats don't win.

You have to consider that a racing skipper who is shouting (or telling the crew how to trim or working on tactics etc.) is failing to do something else, usually failing to helm properly.

You've got to train yourself to let other people do their jobs. Tell them what you want to happen not how to do it. If something goes wrong and it is not going to cause any more problems in that race don't forget it but put it to the back of your mind.

Then after the race go through what went wrong before going up to the bar, including telling people how it should've been done.

It's amazing how many shouting boats come back in and head off straight to the bar, then make the same mistakes and shout about it the next week.

Ok, it's not going to be ideal all the time, but working towards it is a big improvement. You'll be amazed how quite a really good boat is. And how much better you race when the tactician/skipper can spend his time thinking about the big picture not the minutae of sailing the boat. In the words of the racing cliché "keeping your head out of the boat".
 
The only two shouty skippers that I've experienced were both late-middle-aged female race skippers, who couldn't remember the crews' names and just screamed for things to be done along the lines of " tighten that sheet" "don't do it like that" "why isn't XYZ ready". The crew became very silent and withdrawn knowing if they prepared in advance they'd be wrong and if they waited to be told they'd be wrong. I got to the point on an overnight JOG where I was prepared to get off and walk.
 
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Re Border Maid's scurrilous statement that I have "frankly a bit of a reputation as a shouty sort of skipper", I took the opportunity to actually ask today's crew (in Border Maid's hearing) whether I had been shouting and either they are deaf or their claim that no, I hadn't been shouting is true. One lassie who has now completed 6 races with me had been warned by the likes of Border Maid of my vocal proclivities and has been waiting, so far in vain, for them to manifest themselves.

My conclusion is that when the crew consists of willing, intelligent, competents (and perhaps it helps if there are charming young ladies amongst them) then there is no occasion to shout and harmony and light rule the day. Thus, I retire from this thread wholly vindicated and serene in the knowledge that if I have shouted at anyone it is entirely their fault!
 
Shouting is an essential part of seamanship, and a great tradition in British sailing:

 
awol said:
Re Border Maid's scurrilous statement that I have "frankly a bit of a reputation as a shouty sort of skipper", I took the opportunity to actually ask today's crew (in Border Maid's hearing) whether I had been shouting and either they are deaf or their claim that no, I hadn't been shouting is true. One lassie who has now completed 6 races with me had been warned by the likes of Border Maid of my vocal proclivities and has been waiting, so far in vain, for them to manifest themselves.

My conclusion is that when the crew consists of willing, intelligent, competents (and perhaps it helps if there are charming young ladies amongst them) then there is no occasion to shout and harmony and light rule the day. Thus, I retire from this thread wholly vindicated and serene in the knowledge that if I have shouted at anyone it is entirely their fault!
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As I say, I prefer shoutiness to pomposity ;)
 
It all depends if your crew listen to what you ask them to do or not. I have a sort of rule which I make perfectly clear when out sailing or racing. I inform my crew where everything is, tell them what we're going to do and who's going to do it, then inform them that I'll ask them to do something calmly. I'll ask them a further 2 times (calmly), and if the situation warrants, I'll then shout the fourth time.
Such instances are, "please don't stand there as the boom is big and heavy and we are likely to be gybing soon" ............. "XXXXXX did you hear me?, please don't stand there, we might gybe soon" .............. "can someone please tell XXXXX to not stand there" ...................... "For Pete's sake XXXXXX, get your fat head out of the firing line of the boom!"
And surprise surprise, the forth time it works !
Other cases have been with crew members thinking they know what to do and let the lines go before the rest of us are ready. I'll still ask 3 times though before shouting.
However, not shouted for a long time now as crew are getting more competant and listening more !
I also admit that I'm pretty new to this sailing lark and maybe a little uneasy in certain situations (dangerous ones).
 
Blue_Pearl said:
It all depends if your crew listen to what you ask them to do or not. I have a sort of rule which I make perfectly clear when out sailing or racing. I inform my crew where everything is, tell them what we're going to do and who's going to do it, then inform them that I'll ask them to do something calmly. I'll ask them a further 2 times (calmly), and if the situation warrants, I'll then shout the fourth time.
Such instances are, "please don't stand there as the boom is big and heavy and we are likely to be gybing soon" ............. "XXXXXX did you hear me?, please don't stand there, we might gybe soon" .............. "can someone please tell XXXXX to not stand there" ...................... "For Pete's sake XXXXXX, get your fat head out of the firing line of the boom!"
And surprise surprise, the forth time it works !
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Perhaps because XXXXXX didn't know what you meant by "boom" "or "gybe"?
 
That's the problem, they are All briefed with everything prior to setting out. I've never shouted at "newbies" and always use lay mans terms for technical bits and pieces like "the big pole thingy that is underneath the big sail above your head". Also xxxxxx had had about 20 weekends out with us as crew and knows all to well when he's stood up that he shouldn't be ! The last time I shouted at xxxxxx we had just finished a race and had left the spinnaker pole up the mast track, secured to the toe rail. Waves were crashing over the bow and xxxxxx asked what shall we do with the pole. I said that it wasn't necessary to put it away immeadiately and that it could wait until we got back into the lock, as it wasn't in the way. "OK" xxxxxx said. 10 minutes later I looked up to see xxxxx stood on the fore deck (still in choppy conditions) with the spinnaker pole in his arms (it's 4.6m long and not that light) looking at the other crew member as if to say "give us a hand". I shouted at him immediately to put it down and to get his a@&e back to the cockpit - the other two crew members were as shocked as I was, what was xxxxx thinking !
 
Shouting on a boat is a massive no for me.

The only shouting that ever happens on board when racing is by me - and only at other boats!

We have a definite policy on board, and we're not above "encouraging" others to adopt this. If we're ever alongside another boat where someone's having a screaming fit at their crew we like to coordinate our crew into yelling "MORE SHOUTING!" together.

This normally serves to either shut the offender up or, in one memorable case, the person being shouted at simply volunteering to sail for us instead!

I have never, ever, been overtaken by a boat engaged in shouting at themselves.
 
Well shouting of course

These days I find get more from a crew and build confidence if I treat them with respect ,nobody likes being shouted out period !!!!

Personally i beleive the sole responsabilty for the crews actions lie with the teacher, if poorly shown how to do something how will they learn ?

I say to all my crew that how well they do reflects on me because im teaching them.

As skipper i take full respondasbilty for my crews competance on board as im the one showing them.

So come on guys man up !!!!!!:p
 
Guapa said:
Ditto.

Taught my crew all they know (wife & kids).
Works well: they do what I want, how I want and when I want.
And best of all, most of the time I don't need to say (let alone shout) anything :cool:
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Family crew? FAMILY CREW? That's an oxymoron in our family.

The chance would be a fine thing, my family all assume they are passengers - altho SWMBO does assume Galley responsibilities. And they will hold a wheel or a rope - if I ask them nicely & it is sunny. :rolleyes:
 
benjenbav said:
Ah, yes. There's the rub. They just lead off the line and disappear into the distance, don't they.
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Actually, that was supposed to be a joke. But really one of the reasons I stoped racing sailboats was that I was fed up with the fact that it made me into a shouty sort of person. Much more relaxed now (...25 years on). :D
 
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