Shouting is a sign of incompetence

As a teenager I crewed for the local sailing instructor in his enterprise in a St. Mawes SC regatta. his swearing (mainly at me, his crew) was quite outstanding. I told my father afterwards that I'd heard all the words before but never in such long "strings" of jumbled profanity!
It didn't help when after crossing the start in the early pack (hundreds in those heady days :)) he went for a starboard mark and ALL the rest went for a port mark. He maintained for at least 10 minutes he was right and everyone else was wrong - Boy! What a racket.
 
I was resisting this as I've mentioned it here before, but Merry Christmas !

I was at the Folly pontoon - opposite the pub - one day chatting with another boat owner when a small cruiser - Silhouette I think - approached, with a Seagull engine blaring, and a nervous looking woman on the front...

The obviously self conscious chap on the helm - oblivious to the fact everyone could hear him - yelled above the engine noise

" FOR CHRIST'S SAKE LOOK NATURAL ! "
 
Merry Christmas everyone!

Couldn't agree more, Dylan. My burst of shouting was directed at my teenage son who was doing his best in an unfamiliar environment. The more I shouted the more mistakes he made and the more I shouted. It was one of the few times in my life when I felt I'd seriously let someone down due to my own incompetence, failure and panic.

When we spoke about it later he told me that he didn't like sailing (he'd fallen from the boat into the Medway in the summer!) but only came with me because he knew how much I enjoyed it and wanted to sail! I could have cried at my own behaviour.

Suffice to say, he was right. It was my lack of confidence in my own ability that led me to shout at him so much and we resolved the issue by me selling the boat (as I couldn't handle it on my own) and buying him a motor bike in the future.

Therefore, I couldn't agree more with Dylan's original point.
 
I started sailing 30 years ago at Holyhead where there was a mature single lady who was very competent but had a strident voice and, seemingly, frequent changes of crew for the Club's races. To her credit, she'd sailed her boat to the Caribbean and back and was an accomplished mountaineer too.
I once mentioned this to my eldest brother, who remembered her shouting at him in their dinghy sailing days.
And the name of her boat? "Hellhound 3"
 
There are some very competent skippers who still shout. I think it can also display a lack of confidence, or a knowledge that even though competent, they are not as good as they want to be.

Either way I tend not to make a habit of sailing with them. For one thing I don't like to take it all so seriously.

On my boat the only time shouting is used is when someone calls "Panic stations!" Where upon everyone must carry on as usual, but in the most seemingly chaotic and shouty manner possible. Once the maneuver is complete silence is restored and we carry on. This is only generally done when another boat that we deem to be taking things too seriously is within earshot.
 
I shout, scream, yell, throw out personal insults and doubts about the crew's ability, often questioning their parentage. Frankly I am foul mouthed and downright obnoxious. Never causes any problem, and it frequently resolves difficult issues. My secret? Sailing alone (its amazing how calm and placid I can be when there are witnesses about).
 
What is the alternative on a +40footer, when you have quietly instructed crew to acknowledge your instructions,and they don't?

How do you know they have heard you? how may times do you refrain from shouting before you realise they are not listening or cant hear you?

what is the alternative?

It is important all crew acknowledge instruction.
 
billskip said:
It is important all crew acknowledge instruction.
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Yup but it does not need to be text book helm orders:
Order: Starboard 10,
Responce: Starboard ten, then: Starboard Ten on sir on SIR.

Often a quick look a nod an action is enough for me, in fact most instructions go nearly unacknowledged.

I think often the less said the better, unless its concerning the appropriate beverage for the time of day, of course...
 
Del2035 said:
I shout, scream, yell, throw out personal insults and doubts about the crew's ability, often questioning their parentage. Frankly I am foul mouthed and downright obnoxious. Never causes any problem, and it frequently resolves difficult issues. My secret? Sailing alone (its amazing how calm and placid I can be when there are witnesses about).
Click to expand...

Excellent. Been there!
 
>>Shouting is a sign of incompetence
Indeed it is.

Just the other day (about 5 months ago), I spoke gently to the crew, saying, "Errrr, I'll move the boat forward a little, and if at the same time, if you could possibly get the chain back on the windlass and actually lift the anchor, that would be much appreciated."

But the response was "what?" :confused:
 
Well, to put a different spin on this, the only times I shout are when I'm under stress and that is usually because something completely unexpected happens.

But then I must be alone in encountering something new and potentially dangerous ....
 
Seajet said:
I was resisting this as I've mentioned it here before, but Merry Christmas !

I was at the Folly pontoon - opposite the pub - one day chatting with another boat owner when a small cruiser - Silhouette I think - approached, with a Seagull engine blaring, and a nervous looking woman on the front...

The obviously self conscious chap on the helm - oblivious to the fact everyone could hear him - yelled above the engine noise

" FOR CHRIST'S SAKE LOOK NATURAL ! "
Click to expand...

Great story......classic.

Sitting quietly in the cockpit with a cuppa at anchor as other yachts come in and prepare to anchor, listening to the skippers and crews shouting above their engine noise is always a rewarding pastime...... :)
 
I think shouting is fine, it releases inner tensions and lets the worthless beggars Know who is boss.
I never worry that I am perceived as impolite as I usually manage to phrase things into a request by adding something gentle like "if you dont fekkin mind"
Works every time - an art perfected through sailing with Jimi and Para for a decade each.
Jings - 20 fekkin years... Nearly 3 mirrors.
 
I've been on the wrong end of a shouter, very de-moralising and I will never, ever sail with that person again. In any capacity. The assumption is that the crew need shouting at to motivate them when the reality is that they are there because they want to be. Screeching does not make things happen faster, if anything slower when panic sets in. The only thing that makes it faster is training and if the shouter can't organise that he shouldn't be doing it.
 
It took me a long time to realise that when I shouted at the crew it was almost invariably a result of my failure to plan a manoeuvre in advance. When I shout now, there is a good reason for it.

During my yachtmaster exam we were mooring to a pile and one of the crew tried to put the rope on the pile by sticking his head and upper body through the gap between the upper and lower guard wires. He was next to a stanchion and was about to get his head between the stanchion and the pile which was sliding along the gunwale. That merited a shout.

Last season a family was berthing a square-fronted dory nose-in to a pontoon with the young son holding the front with his fingers round the gunwale as it came in just below the edge of the pontoon. I half expected abuse form the father as I screamed at the lad to move his fingers before he lost them. Fortunately he complied and father thanked me.

Screaming at a crew when doing something simple like picking up a buoy is in my book a sign of poor seamanship. I was therefore surprised to hear a torrent of foul language echoing round Dartmouth harbour as Chay Blyth brought one of his RTW racers in with a big crew of squaddies.
 
snowleopard said:
It took me a long time to realise that when I shouted at the crew it was almost invariably a result of my failure to plan a manoeuvre in advance. When I shout now, there is a good reason for it.

During my yachtmaster exam we were mooring to a pile and one of the crew tried to put the rope on the pile by sticking his head and upper body through the gap between the upper and lower guard wires. He was next to a stanchion and was about to get his head between the stanchion and the pile which was sliding along the gunwale. That merited a shout.

Last season a family was berthing a square-fronted dory nose-in to a pontoon with the young son holding the front with his fingers round the gunwale as it came in just below the edge of the pontoon. I half expected abuse form the father as I screamed at the lad to move his fingers before he lost them. Fortunately he complied and father thanked me.

Screaming at a crew when doing something simple like picking up a buoy is in my book a sign of poor seamanship. I was therefore surprised to hear a torrent of foul language echoing round Dartmouth harbour as Chay Blyth brought one of his RTW racers in with a big crew of squaddies.
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Summed up my thoughts entirely
 
I think this has been a very useful thread; the conclusion seems to be that people shouting at crew is really a sign of their own nervousness.

Personally I take great delight in a 'silent boat' with just the odd nod or look to the crew, but this requires a good rapport; more often I try to chat over things first then let them get on with it.

If I should find myself shouting, it would be me who's blown it !
 
ChrisE said:
Well, to put a different spin on this, the only times I shout are when I'm under stress and that is usually because something completely unexpected happens.

But then I must be alone in encountering something new and potentially dangerous ....
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Stress = the effect of trying to control the overwhelming temptation to beat the living s@@t out of somebody who richly deserves it
 
Seajet said:
I think this has been a very useful thread; the conclusion seems to be that people shouting at crew is really a sign of their own nervousness.

Personally I take great delight in a 'silent boat' with just the odd nod or look to the crew, but this requires a good rapport; more often I try to chat over things first then let them get on with it.

If I should find myself shouting, it would be me who's blown it !
Click to expand...

Dont you just love a silent boat.
Nae fekker talkin an deaf an dumb breakfasses
 
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