Should The Government Help Boaters?

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Assassin

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A simple question but undoubtedly one with many answers.

Every time i read a boating publication we see our European competitors doing something for their marine industry, and boaters, often subsidised by their respective Governments. Construction of new, cheap berths, relaxing of local regulations, and often many offers for foreign boaters to commit to mooring there, but what about the UK? in reality nothing.

Many European countries have better climates than ours, cheaper berths, and it is cheaper to fly to these countries, than taking the boat, so how do we compete with them?

What can the UK do for boaters and our marine industry generally to promote it to UK boaters, and boaters from abroad.

How much involvement should the Government have in such schemes, if any at all.
 
There is plenty of state support of boating in the form of council and Crown Estates run/owned marinas/harbours. I'm not sure further subsidy of what is seen as a 'rich man's hobby' is likely to garner electoral support.
 
Just a thought, based on past observation by a former Solent local, now looking in as an 'outsider'.....(absolutely no trolling intended!)

How about if those potential new boat buyers in Britain today do something themselves to help the British marine industry by giving serious consideration to buying locally, rather than foreign?
Oscarpop (who has been posting a fair bit recently on Scuttlebutt and the PBO Forum) has just done that, by agreeing to buy a new Southerly 38 built by Northshore rather than a Jeanneau or a Hanse - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287523

He notes that the Southerly is significantly more expensive than the other two, but the general consensus seems to be that it is by far a 'better' boat for what he wants to do.

JFM of this Forum is perhaps a classic example of this - he could so easily have bought a foreign 78' motor yacht (and quite possibly for less cost), but he had owned / built previous Fairlines, and he went with Fairline again for building Match.
And he started an amazing thread on this Forum which will probably never be beaten in terms of posts or views - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240351-
Just think about how much positive free advertising / publicity Fairline (and British boatbuilding in general perhaps?) have gained world wide as a result!

I remember wandering around marinas in Lymington and Southampton 20 years ago, and noticing even then how the majority of the yachts were foreign built, similarly the majority of the cars parked in the car parks....... and on my last visit to the Solent in June this majority seems to have increased.......
And I have also wandered around a few French marinas 20 years ago as well, and noticed then how they generally appeared to be much more patriotic re their boat and car buying...... (are they still the same now?)

OK, I can anticipate (some of) the reaction to the above thoughts, which probably is along the lines of 'there are no suitable British boats that we like', or 'they are all far too expensive, foreign boats are cheaper / better / more sexy', but maybe this is partially because so many British boatbuilders have gone under in the past 20 years that there is not an awful lot of choice now?
 
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I remember 'Buy British' being a slogan many years ago and people used to do that, believing that British products were the best in the world.

However, when Japanese cars, motorbikes and electronic goods began to be imported people began to realise what absolute rubbish so many of our products were - poor design, uncompetitive prices and poor quality control. Not surprisingly, it proved impossible to continue to persuade people to buy British when they realised they could get much better products for their money.

Complacent, reactionary UK management and bolshie trade unions killed off our manufacturing industry. Very sad but it deserved to die.
 
Its an interesting post in some respects, not sure that the government should get involved but, While out yesterday on Southampton water in my rib, we decided to go up to Eling and grab a beer from the pub there,the only place to tie up was against a very rickety old wooden structure against the wall (apart from the sailing club pontoon) I remarked to my friend whilst having a beer that it seems that in this country most of the local councils do very little to encourage boaters to be able to moor their boats in less popular areas, this seems to be wide spread around this country! All people do is put up signs saying "no moorings" "no landing" etc.

You go on some of the French canals and some of the local rural mooring facilities are free and with free electric to encourage people to use the local shops etc. shame this country doesn't adopt a more welcoming attitude, and provide better facilities as this might actually encourage outside visitors to come and spend more money in this country.
 
I think motor boating is one of the few hobbies where you can buy British and not feel you have had to accept second best in order to support your country. We still make world beating motorboats to suit a range of Pockets.

The big 4, Princess, Sunseeker, Fairline and Sealine are joined by numerous firms who produce in smaller volume but who, because of their geographical location, are forced to produce a better boat in order to compete.

We don't have the large lakes of the the US so offshore boats really are offshore capable and because of the well established nature of the Market quality issues sometimes found in far eastern craft are not unacceptable, and by far Eastern I don't mean Norfolk :)

So actually I don't think a buy British campaign requires much effort on the part of the buyer. They should probably be buying British anyway if they have got any sense. But a good idea to jog the memory.

I know in the States there has long been a tradition of "made with pride in the USA", let's be proud of w
One of the few areas where we really can hold our heads high.

Henry :)
 
I'd agree with most of the comment above, but fear government does more to discourage boats and tourism than promote.

I have both British boat(s) and British car, but neither are new or even nearly new (due sadly to shallow draft of wallet :o). I do always try to buy British if possible, but we are often overpriced. Unions collectively ruined British industry by failing to look after the interests of their members - instead of endorsing new practices and modernisation to keep us ahead of the competition they always seemed to obstruct and see business as a cash cow for their milking.

The problems with tourism are very similar but with government more of the greedy party. I live in a tourist area, but honestly can't remember the last time I 'shopped' in town. I occasionally buy food out, but prices are excessive and a picnic is usually plan A for beach or boat. The prices are forced up by excessive rates and greed of local councils on issues like parking. Unnecessary regulation - mostly from the EU that we are always first to adopt - also hampers many small businesses and traditional events along with a compensation culture which means many events are not viable to insure.

I started the Fletcher boat rally with a friend last year and although it is in it's infancy, we have found more enthusiasm from local Harbour Master and to a lesser degree the council than we expected. I hope this is a recognition of the need to promote and drive home grown events, but there was no doubt that when idea was first suggested that it was initially viewed as a liability. We had however already looked in depth at likely problems and as such had answers ready which in itself resulted in a willingness to facilitate.

Sometimes people give up on things too easily and we simply have to push a bit harder to fight our corner! For 2012 we felt a pontoon based event would dramatically improve things and because we wanted minimal cost for attendees, we couldn't find funding for a temporary pontoon, so approach MDL to hire theirs for the day. We have spent 3 months hunting down sponsors to cover the cost but now have our second sponsor. I've never attempted such events before, but sometimes it's also necessary to stick your head above the parapet and do something rather than complain as to why nobody else does... :)
 
penfold said:
There is plenty of state support of boating in the form of council and Crown Estates run/owned marinas/harbours. I'm not sure further subsidy of what is seen as a 'rich man's hobby' is likely to garner electoral support.
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Don't know of many "council-run" marinas, I'm afraid (a few, yes, but not many).
And I don't quite see how the Crown Estates grabbing a slice of harbour dues in exchange for FA can be construed as "state support", any more than fuel tax can be seen as the government "supporting" motorists.
But I think perhaps the OP is a slightly rose-tinted view of how other governments treat their boating customers and industries.

Various countries around the world have tried to screw their boat-owners with punitive taxation. Almost always it collapses -- but only after they realise that their greed is in danger of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. Some governments are renowned for meddling in matters that are none of their business to an even greater extent than ours -- as a crude rule of thumb, it seems that the warmer the weather and the calmer the sea, the more likely you are to find some flat-hat demanding to see a piece of paper and safety equipment.

To answer the original question: IMO the best thing government can do for any industry (including ours) is stop meddling. Stop thinking up clever ways of extorting money and stop thinking up stupid rules and regulations. To give them their due they were pretty good about it until recently (if we forgive them the 25% VAT that did so much to kill off the industry back in the late sixties (?) (early seventies?) when VAT on most other things was 8%.

(I remember as a lad that there was a little ironmonger in our town who sold a few bits of dinghy stuff. I wanted a new mainsheet for my Solo. He told me I didn't ... but he sold me a very nice 12mm braid-on braid "washing line" instead! :))
 
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Assassin said:
Every time i read a boating publication we see our European competitors doing something for their marine industry.
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How many of them allow their boaters to use 40% duty free fuel? As for building marinas, they are gold mines in the right location, and there would be private investors falling over themselves if they could get round the land use restrictions. It seems only governments can do this though.
 
jhr said:
None, I guess, but as they charge less duty on fuel to start with, I believe that the end result is that UK boaters pay about as much for a litre of diesel as most of our European neighbours?
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At current fx rates we pay less than most euro countries, but my point was more that boaters pay less for their fuel than motorists, and this was allowed by the government specifically to help the marine industry, and UK boatbuilders in particular, because we mostly build diesel guzzling mobos.

I haven't seen much evidence to support the original post that other countries do so much more than ours to support boating and the marine industry. It would be nice to hear of some concrete examples.
 
Nick_H said:
...my point was more that boaters pay less for their fuel than motorists, and this was allowed by the government specifically to help the marine industry, and UK boatbuilders in particular, because we mostly build diesel guzzling mobos.
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That's a bit of an oversimplification. There are many reasons. One of them, for instance, is that the government knows damn well that the only reason it gets away with existing rates of taxation on road fuel is because there is a physical barrier between the UK and mainland Europe, where fuel tax is less excessive. For boats, the channel is a highway, not a barrier.
 
With the utmost respect.

"For boats, the channel is a highway, not a barrier."

Perhps one could (very respectfully and with the unmost reverence :)) say that is a load of olde tosh.99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999 % of UK boats never go more than a 500yds from our glorious coast and even if capable of doing the trip, cannot be arsed to save 50p a litre and then use most of it getting there and back anyway .
 
oldgit said:
"For boats, the channel is a highway, not a barrier."

Perhps one could (very respectfully and with the unmost reverence :)) say that is a load of olde tosh.99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999 % of UK boats never go more than a 500yds from our glorious coast and even if capable of doing the trip, cannot be arsed to save 50p a litre and then use most of it getting there and back anyway .
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That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.
But:-
the boats that go from Poole to Studland for the weekend don't use as much fuel as those that go from Poole to Cherbourg, so the latter are a bigger loss to the taxman
and
if it costs you more to keep and run your boat in the UK than it does to keep, run and travel to your boat in <somewhere warm and sunny> what are you going to do?
If running a boat in the UK becomes prohibitively expensive, and a nice Dutchman comes along and offers to buy it because running costs are less in the Netherlands, what are you going to do?

It is easy to move boats (and the spending power that goes with them) abroad. The 60:40 split is simply a compromise intended to extract as many golden eggs from the goose as possible without killing it.
 
oldgit said:
"For boats, the channel is a highway, not a barrier."

Perhps one could (very respectfully and with the unmost reverence :)) say that is a load of olde tosh.99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999 % of UK boats never go more than a 500yds from our glorious coast and even if capable of doing the trip, cannot be arsed to save 50p a litre and then use most of it getting there and back anyway .
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:D I was thinking that - you'd need a big tank in order to buy enough to make it worthwhile AND cover what you used getting there and back! Rules out planing boats I'd think! I suppose if you are a regular channel hopper then it would make sense to fill up the other side, but then again if you could afford that much travel by boat then saving a few pence per litre probably isn't that important anyway.
 
timbartlett said:
If running a boat in the UK becomes prohibitively expensive, and a nice Dutchman comes along and offers to buy it because running costs are less in the Netherlands, what are you going to do?
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So by allowing a 60/40 split the gov't has helped to keep boats in the UK, thus supporting the marine industry. The idea that it's to avoid boaters travelling abroad to fill up is, err..... tosh (in my opinion, with all that respect and reverence stuff).
 
Nick_H said:
So by allowing a 60/40 split the gov't has helped to keep boats in the UK, thus supporting the marine industry. The idea that it's to avoid boaters travelling abroad to fill up is, err..... tosh (in my opinion, with all that respect and reverence stuff).
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Agreed. Its one of the few things Brown did to help British industry. Maybe he was feeling guilty for putting up road tax if you bought a Jaguar, Range Rover, Bentley, Aston Martin or any other big-engined British car, but reducing it if you bought a Clio or a Panda.
 
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