Should the Coastguard charge for non emergency call outs

[ARA]

Thoughts from a previous post.

If the coastguard are called out for an emergency caused by stupidity or more importantly repeated stupidity or help people with breakdowns (yes we all have them) by towing boats back to port , should they make a charge for their services ?

 

[taz]

Aren't they already heavily subsidised/supported by the boating fraternity?

Without this support would they exist?

 

[Duster]

As far as I know, the Coastguard are an organisation which is shrinking rapidly in this region, have few if any boats and I have never personally seen them tow in a broken down boat.

They are mainly a call handling service for the Lifeboats and who ever provides air sea rescue in the region, also a broadcaster of weather forecasts and info to shipping.

The Lifeboat are a body funded by donations so I doubt that they would be interested in charging for rescues.

 

[rbcoomer]

No. If people delay calling for help on the basis they might manage, or might not be able to afford then more minor incidents will become serious and ultimately cost lives. The RNLI would far rather an 'easy' shout to help someone with a tow than risk the lives of their crew when a broken down vessel is being smashed up on rocks or in a life-threatening situation.

 

[ARA]

As far as I know, the Coastguard are an organisation which is shrinking rapidly in this region, have few if any boats and I have never personally seen them tow in a broken down boat.

They are mainly a call handling service for the Lifeboats and who ever provides air sea rescue in the region, also a broadcaster of weather forecasts and info to shipping.

The Lifeboat are a body funded by donations so I doubt that they would be interested in charging for rescues.

Sounds good then, Coastguard are the call centre taking the money for non emergency call outs & can then pass on the money to the others. Breakdowns on the motorways are handled in a similar way, you have to be cleared from the hardshoulder ASAP, call out the RAC or AA etc or pay for a local breakdown service to get you out of danger

 

[ARA]

No. If people delay calling for help on the basis they might manage, or might not be able to afford then more minor incidents will become serious and ultimately cost lives. The RNLI would far rather an 'easy' shout to help someone with a tow than risk the lives of their crew when a broken down vessel is being smashed up on rocks or in a life-threatening situation.

£150 ish for seastart for the year looks like a good cheap alternative. The same goes for paying for courses to learn the basics. Why should others have to subsidise the people ignoring the basics, based on that assumption then lifejackets & rafts should be provided to all for free

 

[rbcoomer]

£150 ish for seastart for the year looks like a good cheap alternative. The same goes for paying for courses to learn the basics. Why should others have to subsidise the people ignoring the basics, based on that assumption then lifejackets & rafts should be provided to all for free

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree, unless compulsory those who join would be paying and the RNLI would still be towing in the others... Also, Seastart have to my knowledge only have use of ribs that might not be suitable in a force 8 at night if the vessel needing a tow was 50'. Too many grey areas I fear!

 

[simon barefoot]

Look at what happened to the Union Star and the Solomon Browne. Didn't want to have to pay for a commercial salvage tow and so everyone died.

 

[rafiki_]

The Coastguards are part of the MCA, Maritime and Coastguard Agency, part of the Dept for Transport. The Coastguard bit is fully funded by us tax payers, and the DfT has recently run a competition to run the SARS, Search and Reascue Services, but again, this is fully funded. MCA does charge for some of its services, flagging commercial vessels, inspections and training.

 

[ricky_s]

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree, unless compulsory those who join would be paying and the RNLI would still be towing in the others... Also, Seastart have to my knowledge only have use of ribs that might not be suitable in a force 8 at night if the vessel needing a tow was 50'. Too many grey areas I fear!

Plus Seastart only go a few miles off shore so wouldn't have helped in this case.

 

[prv]

If the coastguard are called out for an emergency caused by stupidity or more importantly repeated stupidity or help people with breakdowns (yes we all have them) by towing boats back to port , should they make a charge for their services ?

The sort of thing that the Coastguard get called out for is generally nothing to do with boats. They provide the cliff rescue teams, specialist mud rescue in places that have lots of it, shoreline searches, etc etc. So they're more likely to get involved with injured dog walkers and potential (and actual) suicides than broken down motorboats. Incidentally, these teams are all (as far as I know) volunteers, though unlike the RNLI their kit and other costs are paid by the taxpayer.

Your broken-down boats are the domain of the RNLI (who you apparently know little about, thinking that they are the Coastguard), and the RNLI regularly state that they are opposed to the idea of callout fees as it may discourage people from asking for help when they need it. The organisation is flush with cash thanks to generous donations, and I know that many of their volunteers are only too happy to get a chance to go out and play with their big powerful orange toy.

There isn't a problem here that needs solving.

Pete

 

[Duster]

Well said Pete,

End of thread........troll goes back under his bridge!

 

[maverickofpoole]

My thoughts are no they shouldn't impose a charge as it may well have the effect of deterring people reporting situations that may well become more serious with the passage of time. The rescue services are well versed in assessing situations and well able to make the correct call as and when a situation arises. The Coastguard does have the option to arrange a commercial tow which on occasion I believe they do. This then puts all the costs back on the caller. So I would guess if you were a regular caller with an ill prepared/maintained craft or they were under a heavy workload they would do just that.

 

[gravygraham]

If the coastguard are called out for an emergency caused by stupidity or more importantly repeated stupidity or help people with breakdowns (yes we all have them) by towing boats back to port , should they make a charge for their services ?

Coastguard RNLI, or whoever you mean, you're asking about 'non emergency call outs'. Either way, they'll have to do more fund-raising to pay for the teams of layers they'll need to defend the cases brought against them from folks who deemed their 'resuce' was an emergency.

 

[prv]

It's also worth noting that any vessel getting towed in by a lifeboat is met on landing by a Coastguard officer. His job is to assess whether its skipper is a reasonably competent person who met some bad luck, or a complete idiot who shouldn't be out on the water until they know what they're doing. In the latter case I believe he will deliver some "words of advice", which amount to a bit of a *******ing for being an idiot.

I don't believe they can actually be punished or prevented from going back on the water, but the image of Captain Calamity being towed in, waving a cheery goodbye to the Lifeboat crew, and immediately setting out again in his motorised bathtub is not quite correct.

Pete

 

[TSB240]

There isn't a problem here that needs solving.

Pete

Sorry to disagree..

I recently witnessed a callout to a mobo. 1 of a group of three identical boats that had anchored up very close in a sheltered bay close to a major north west ferry port.

We were monitoring the VHF and never heard a call from the said Mobo so they must have phoned in their plight to the CG. Certainly no pan pan given to which we could have given immediate help.

Amongst our assembled mottly group of furumites we had the capability to provide a spare battery and jump leads and were prepared to offer assistance to overcome a flat battery and or offer a tow.

The reason we were monitoring the vhf was that there was casualty working going on in our immediate area with Rescue 122 and other LB,s .

AWB was sent out to tow them less than 15 mins to harbour

How close was this to diverting a possibly stretched resource from actually saving lives?

Incidentally I have heard and would like to have channel yacht or someone who can support this that the LB's do not carry a set of jump leads and a spare battery nor are they allowed to jump start. So the solution to a minor problem is tying up a valuable resource for far longer than necessary.

I was also concerned that the other two identical boaters were unable through lack of knowledge,skill or equipment to help either start or tow their friend the short distance.

In terms of practice I dont think setting up a tow in flat calm conditions did anything to help train the AWLB Crew for far worse circumstances.

 

[ribrunt]

RNLI LBs do not carry jump leads, spare diesel/petrol, spare batteries, etc. If crew (as they often do) have a bit of experience, they can sometimes deal with the problem (e.g. open vent cap!!) and then it's an escort, not a tow.

If the ALB in question had a more serious tasking while on this job, it is very likely the vessel would have been anchored and the priority incident dealt with. It's happened to me before.

Hope this helps.

 

[[70521]]

I pay my taxes.

 

[ARA]

The sort of thing that the Coastguard get called out for is generally nothing to do with boats. They provide the cliff rescue teams, specialist mud rescue in places that have lots of it, shoreline searches, etc etc. So they're more likely to get involved with injured dog walkers and potential (and actual) suicides than broken down motorboats. Incidentally, these teams are all (as far as I know) volunteers, though unlike the RNLI their kit and other costs are paid by the taxpayer.

Your broken-down boats are the domain of the RNLI (who you apparently know little about, thinking that they are the Coastguard), and the RNLI regularly state that they are opposed to the idea of callout fees as it may discourage people from asking for help when they need it. The organisation is flush with cash thanks to generous donations, and I know that many of their volunteers are only too happy to get a chance to go out and play with their big powerful orange toy.

There isn't a problem here that needs solving.

Pete

suggest you re read what I had posted earlier, the coastguard takes the call & in your comment "It's also worth noting that any vessel getting towed in by a lifeboat is met on landing by a Coastguard officer." so the Coastguard is the logical point of contact for perhaps making decisions on charging. Thank you for explaining who does what but if you had read the thread properly you would have realised that I probably knew the basics

 

[ARA]

My thoughts are no they shouldn't impose a charge as it may well have the effect of deterring people reporting situations that may well become more serious with the passage of time. The rescue services are well versed in assessing situations and well able to make the correct call as and when a situation arises. The Coastguard does have the option to arrange a commercial tow which on occasion I believe they do. This then puts all the costs back on the caller. So I would guess if you were a regular caller with an ill prepared/maintained craft or they were under a heavy workload they would do just that.

Interesting, that sounds very close to my suggestion of charging, I wonder how many referals of commercial towing they do in a year, and is it for commercial ships only & not private boats ?