Should everyone speak English?

Mrs Springy said:
However, the most useful phrase I found was 'pastel de nata por favor'.....'a custard tart if you please'.....that got me through good times and bad, they really are a heavenly experience :-)
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Google translate helpfully provides "Duas cervejas, por favor, meu amigo está pagando." ;->
 
galadriel said:
After a good many years living in France, my SIL who is married to a Frenchman, still gets frustrated with the language. Her French is superb, but she reports that there are occasions in conversation where people make out they dont understand what she is saying, maybe just because of a slight pronunciation issue. She claims that even talking with friends the French can be exceedingly awkward.
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I used to work with some French people (in London), and found "Je ne parle pas français, mais je peux comprendre française." a useful phrase to use - *after* they had been talking for 5 minutes...
 
Para-linguistics

Nostrodamus said:
Also French speak a lot more with facial expressions and arms than we do. Sometimes an animated conversation is like a dance.
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Roughly 40 percent of what you communicate is achieved through the components of what's called para-linguistics, the part of nonverbal communication that conveys emotions and attitudes through tone, pitch, volume, pauses, and throat-clears. What's even more amazing is that these signals have five times more the communicative value than the actual spoken words. Specifically, these are some of the messages that can be conveyed about personality traits:
- An increased rate of speaking generally implies that the individual is more animated and extroverted.
- Flatness in the tone of voice indicates more withdrawn and masculine characteristics.
- A nasal sound is considered undesirable.
- A person with a weak voice is usually perceived as lacking confidence, which lowers credibility. A strong voice, on the other hand, shows great confidence.
- Deeper voice in men means more testosterone at time of puberty, so more able to defend his spouse.
- More high-pitched voice in females means more estrogen at puberty, so more able to birth viable children.[/I]
 
Tradewinds said:
I kept making gender errors (never mind pronunciation!) etc and in the end I gave up and went back into colonial mode. :rolleyes:
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Tradewinds, get back on the job !!!! Don't mind the "errors". The objective is to communicate, the niceties can and will come along later, with practice.

Once was abroad in a meeting with a very much junior colleague whose English was very very poor, to put it lightly. In the evening he apologised very sincerely for his atrocious mangling of the English language during the meeting. Told him he had said what he had to say, they understood, and likewise they said what they had to say and we understood them. That's perfect, job done. Just keep achieving that in all your meetings and you're home in a run.

Linguistic perfection ?? That will come with practice, and a few classes to improve the basics.

Plomong
 
Robin said:
It is not that difficult to learn the languages for forecasts. Most forecasts follow set formats and with practice and a list of words to expect it shouldn't be too hard to pick up. In France it is made easier because the VHF forecasts are issued at slightly different times along the coasts and generally you can receive not just your immediate local transmitter one but the ones from either side as well at about 15 minute intervals. This gives you three goes at getting it written down, so that anything missed in the first hearing can be filled in at number two or three, even if you write an unknown word down phonetically and look it up later. The French VHF forecasts are very good IMO and they give a rolling outlook rather than just repeat the same stuff all day until the next full forecast arrives. Without these you have to rely on marina posted forecasts or Navtex or guesswork which IMO would make it very difficult to get out of the marina to marina routine and out into the anchorages. The UK shipping forecast would keep you in harbour most of the time if you were cruising the Biscay coast, yet the local VHF ones would get you out and about, time to buy a marine dictionary!
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All very very true. The French meteo info is much better presented than the UK info, IMHO.

Also, and on a trial basis that looks like becoming permanent because of the favourable reactions to it, the French now broadcast continuously on channel (68 or 72 ???) the local inshore forecast, 24/24. Great for listening several times to the reader to pick up any points missed.

As for jargon used, read the written forecast at http://marine.meteofrance.com/ under "Bulletins Côte" and you will see that words like averses, quelques, ourages, etc are used quite frequently. Look them up in a dictionary and Bob's you're uncle.

The UK forecasts took much more getting used to, for me anyway, and are more difficult to interpret as they are far more "coded" than the French ones.

Plomong
 
The Brits are known to be lazy when comes to languages. However, You only need to learn no more than 80 words per language to be able to cover the most important things.

You don't even have to memorise them, just write them down, have them to hand and practice a bit. People are respected more when they make an attempt and also get better service form the locals.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
The Brits are known to be lazy when comes to languages. However, You only need to learn no more than 80 words per language to be able to cover the most important things.

You don't even have to memorise them, just write them down, have them to hand and practice a bit. People are respected more when they make an attempt and also get better service form the locals.
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Does this work with Chinese characters?
 
Plomong said:
Tradewinds, get back on the job !!!! Don't mind the "errors". The objective is to communicate, the niceties can and will come along later, with practice.

Once was abroad in a meeting with a very much junior colleague whose English was very very poor, to put it lightly. In the evening he apologised very sincerely for his atrocious mangling of the English language during the meeting. Told him he had said what he had to say, they understood, and likewise they said what they had to say and we understood them. That's perfect, job done. Just keep achieving that in all your meetings and you're home in a run.

Linguistic perfection ?? That will come with practice, and a few classes to improve the basics.

Plomong
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Been back living in Suffolk for the last 12 years. Can't communicate with the locals here either ;):D
 
Mrs Springy said:
Roughly 40 percent of what you communicate is achieved through the components of what's called para-linguistics, the part of nonverbal communication that conveys emotions and attitudes through tone, pitch, volume, pauses, and throat-clears. What's even more amazing is that these signals have five times more the communicative value than the actual spoken words. Specifically, these are some of the messages that can be conveyed about personality traits:
- An increased rate of speaking generally implies that the individual is more animated and extroverted.
- Flatness in the tone of voice indicates more withdrawn and masculine characteristics.
- A nasal sound is considered undesirable.
- A person with a weak voice is usually perceived as lacking confidence, which lowers credibility. A strong voice, on the other hand, shows great confidence.
- Deeper voice in men means more testosterone at time of puberty, so more able to defend his spouse.
- More high-pitched voice in females means more estrogen at puberty, so more able to birth viable children.[/I]
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a
 
Back in the day whilst onboard an oil tanker we came across a French flagged vessel in the middle of nowhere so called her on the VHF to pass the time of day in English, the international language of the sea.... and they came back in French.

As luck would have it the 2nd mate who had called them up was a Chinese pilot so he spoke to them again in his native tongue.

Lo and behold they then answered in very eloquent English.

C'est la vie!

Mike
 
Maybe there is a need to start using Q codes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code again.

Or you could use the International Code of Signals, 2005 ed. (IMO IA994E), IMO – International Maritime Organization, 2005, ISBN 9789280141986
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Code_of_Signals

And yes it seems that lots of British think that increasing the sound level helps people understand.

I have been traveling a lot in France - don't speak the language. English is my first foreign language.

Some thing I have found to work (in France)
First - learn some French phrases
-Bonjour (Good morning)
-Bonne journée (good day)
-Parlez-vous anglais (do you speak English), when they hear your French is worse than their English it tends to help.
-Merci (Thank you)

Remember that their English vocabulary is limited(compared to native speakers of English), so it's not bad will when they don't understand. Try rephrasing or use a phrase Book.

Also even if I have good knowledge of English, I always need some time to switch language - When my mind works in Norwegian I always need time to switch..
 
As a ex merchant mariner, not a native English speaker and with no French, I draw your attention to the fact that for post and radio communications the official language is French. That wherever you go recognizing that other cultures and languages are not inferior and that attempting to be courteous helps a lot.
And that a pre Copernican attitude shows.
 
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