Shotley to Ramsgate, best available charts/folio?

Well the idea of the different routes was to provide a choice, and indeed, followed the well used routes. Arguable pvb is a politician :p: ignoring the facts to argue his favourite as 'a few extra minutes' is a bit strong but then he doesn't have the advantage of 20 million, 892 thousand odd calculations :encouragement: to work out the timing. It's 41 minutes longer. :):):)

Now seriously, it's a matter of choice. It is worth thinking about the weather as well as just the hazards. I would argue that the hazards are pretty equal. We have to be careful of the shipping which ever we go: the Sunk Sand v Long Sand Head - personally I'd prefer the Little Sunk over Long Sand Head as the Little Sunk is very stable in terms of depth and has a gap of a mile and a half. Long Sand Head, however, is gently migrating towards the north-east and is squeezing the Two-Way Route. In a conversation the Walton Lifeboat Coxn told me that he always prepares when a Yacht goes on the Long Sand Head because "it isn't very nice". But it is still a viable route and as would pvb argue with a nice NE wind, there is a great spinny or cruising chute run round outside the Knock. And yes, it is interesting through the inside. And on that point, it seems to me that the Tongue Anchorage is getting more and more popular in recent years. Oh and some peeps have cut through the Wind Farm at the bottom of Foulger's to ignore the dogleg avenue. That would make the Outside route less competitive..... provided 'one' is comfortable - there is plenty of room and it is legal.

What I haven't said is the time to start for the quickest passage. To get the best start time either of the Foulger's routes or the Outside route, be outside of Harwich Harbour between Sheerness +1.45 and +2.00hrs. That of course is based on 5kts on springs, other values would differ. I am prepared, generally with 24 hrs notice, to provide a bespoke recommendation as to best time for anyone who has a copy of the book.:nonchalance:

Now about the folios. Imray's 2000 series stops at the Long Sand Head so isn't great for the Ouside route and the 2100 series would be needed for any of the routes to cover the southern part. The UKHO 5607 series includes sufficient of the Long Sand Head and just enough round the Kentish Knock. It also has a 1:250,000 scale chart which is ok (if arguably the scale is a bit thin on detail) which cover the outside route down to the North Foreland. For the detail of the southern part of the inside routes the 5606 series is necessary. As a general comment twix the two publishers, Imray has a little less detail compared to UKHO but thereby provides clarity for the yachtsman or woman. Imray are likely to include some more detail relevant to yachtpeeps than the UKHO - quick example Imray includes Lawling Creek buoyage, UKHO doesn't. Frankly they are both excellent.
 
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tillergirl said:
Well the idea of the different routes was to provide a choice, and indeed, followed the well used routes. Arguable pvb is a politician :p: ignoring the facts to argue his favourite as 'a few extra minutes' is a bit strong but then he doesn't have the advantage of 20 million, 892 thousand odd calculations :encouragement: to work out the timing. It's 41 minutes longer. :):):)
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Well, 41 minutes might seem a lifetime to you, but in the overall scheme of things I don't see it as a big disadvantage. I've done all of that wiggling about stuff in the narrow channels, and was never very keen on it. The outside route is - for me - a much easier proposition. And Kukri seems to agree.

OK, you have a vested interest in promoting the routes which you detail in your book, so I'm not particularly bothered if you disagree about the outside route.
 
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41 minutes is a significant proportion of my expected life-span, and if it means that I can spend the time tucked up in my bunk it will assume overriding importance.
 
pvb said:
Well, 41 minutes might seem a lifetime to you, but in the overall scheme of things I don't see it as a big disadvantage. I've done all of that wiggling about stuff in the narrow channels, and was never very keen on it. The outside route is - for me - a much easier proposition. And Kukri seems to agree.
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“Kukri” draws 2.7 metres, weighs 24 tons, and in more capable hands has been everywhere and done everything. Open water holds no terrors for her but sandbanks deserve respect... Long ago, when her keeper was much younger and had “Mytica”, all 18ft x 6’6” x 3’4” of her, and had read, and indeed met, Maurice Griffiths, Harvey Benham and John Leather, he was rather keen on swatchways and cross sand routes. He once fetched her a resounding bang on the Barrow Swatch, with no damage but once was enough for one lifetime. Hitting sand in the open Estuary is not like hitting mud in a river or creek.

I’ll happily do a cross sand route if the conditions are good, but not if I’m tired, and/or the wind is ahead of the beam, and/or it’s raining or blowing.
 
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pvb said:
OK, you have a vested interest in promoting the routes which you detail in your book, so I'm not particularly bothered if you disagree about the outside route.
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Calm down pvb, old chap. I apologise my humour. I don't disagree about the outside routes, I merely point out all the hazards. Umm, yes I do have a vested interest of course. The income amounts to a nice curry every a month (actually if you buy the book from someone other than Amazon please, it would be two curries a month). Umm, I include the outside routes you know in the book! :encouragement:
 
I need a new copy of CTTE, and I was just about to go to Amazon, so it is lucky you explained the Amazon/curry ratio.. what about Fox's chandlery? And how to know if it's the latest edition they have on the shelf?
 
pvb said:
. I've done all of that wiggling about stuff in the narrow channels, and was never very keen on it..
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You were young then, and probably needed the money :)

Are you suggesting that we all go sailing to actually get somewhere ?

All the books say that like life, it's all about the journey .

Sometimes though, you just need to get home.
 
I would prefer not to be trapped outside the Longsands, so I would keep to the west.
Then I would always go via Fishermans because navigation is so easy. Sail round the tower & once through the, well buoyed, Gat one can often see N Foreland.

Why any one worries about the odd ship in the Black Deep, I have no idea. One can meet them coming up past the Kentish Knock & into the shipping zone as well. Just get out of the way. Simple!!

As for charts, Just the Imray chart of the Thames estuary.C1 Any one printed in the last 10 years will do for that trip-- provided the echo sounder works.
 
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I went by Medusa, cut across the Gunfleet a bit, Little Sunk, Foulgers Gat and it took just over 8 hrs, including a snagged peak halliard so very good time. It was a biblically beautiful day as well :)
 

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