Short Cruises from Cardiff

[Dutch01527]

I am planning to moor my 26 foot, low draft (2 ft) sailing boat in Cardiff Bay. Assume 4 - 5 knots through the water when sailing or motor sailing.

I am planning some short 2 or 3 day cruises and am coming to grips with the tidal/current challenges. Would the following work:

Day 1 - Cardiff to Wachet, leave about 5 hours before high water, arrive c. 1 hour before high water

Day 2 - Wachet to Lynmouth, leave on gate opening, arrive c.1 hour after high water

Day 3 - Lynmouth to Cardiff, leave asap when afloat arrive Cardiff c. 6 hours later

Any other suggestions for a few days (or even day sail) cruise?

Thanks

 

[alant]

I am planning to moor my 26 foot, low draft (2 ft) sailing boat in Cardiff Bay. Assume 4 - 5 knots through the water when sailing or motor sailing.

I am planning some short 2 or 3 day cruises and am coming to grips with the tidal/current challenges. Would the following work:

Day 1 - Cardiff to Wachet, leave about 5 hours before high water, arrive c. 1 hour before high water

Day 2 - Wachet to Lynmouth, leave on gate opening, arrive c.1 hour after high water

Day 3 - Lynmouth to Cardiff, leave asap when afloat arrive Cardiff c. 6 hours later

Any other suggestions for a few days (or even day sail) cruise?

Thanks

Wouldn't you be punching tide on the Cardiff to Watchet Leg?

 

[bitbaltic]

Most people don't punch tides in the BC in the way your Days 1 and 2 plan to, even when the sums add up you may find the sea state is rather unpleasant and the tidal reality a bit different; you will easily be down to 2kn SOG on springs.... most would go down to Watchet on the ebb, anchor off over LW (Porlock or Blue Anchor Bay) and potter back up on the flood tide to arrive once the gate is open. I've not been to Lynmouth, but I would imagine most would similarly plan to arrive there on a rising tide.

The easiest trip you can do is from Cardiff to Avonmouth (Portishead or Bristol) which will take you about 4 hours and be with both the predominant wind and tide. That would be a good way to familiarise yourself with the area. Go and sail about off Cardiff and try punching the tides locally before you commit to making a passage against them.

Edited to add: a Cardiff-Portishead-Bristol Floating Harbour-Cardiff cruise makes a good weekend but be careful with the tides and locking times in Bristol.

Swansea is also reachable in a weekend (just)

 

[SteveSarabande]

Punching the tide is a recipe for disaster. Getting to Watchett is a tidal problem. To make best speed go on an ebb tide, but you also need to arrive at near to HW. I used to leave a few hours before LW, go down Welsh coast until low water, anchor for a while then cross getting there a few hours before HW

Or us the ebb tide to get to the anchorage at Minehead, arrive there at low water. Wait 4 hours and take the tide back up to Watchett.

Same leaving Watchett heading west, you won't make much progress west against the tide. Leave at HW, anchor somewhere near Lynmouth until you can get in.

Bristol Channel is a great place to learn to really understand tidal passage making, it has proper tides. Makes me laugh when Solent people talk about big tides

 

[SteveSarabande]

Cardiff/Swansea/Watchett is an easier tidal trip. Leave Cardiff barrage at HW-2 and hug the coast for the first two hours, there is a great eddy, but you need to be near enough to throw stones on the beach to get it.

 

[Dutch01527]

Thanks for the input. Learning curve for me.

Stupidly I had been focussing on tide height not current direction. I have done the calculations properly and now see the issue.

Looks like about 18 miles distance will take c. 6/7 hours elapsed using the tide and anchoring when required for both the Cardiff to Watchet and the Watchet to Lynmouth legs, is that about right? Looks like I need to reset my "get there quick" timer to a " the journey is more important than the destination" mindset if I am to enjoy the Bristol Channel.

I am not opposed to motor sailing so that may ease things a bit unless the sea state makes that too uncomfortable.

Practice around Cardiff and listen to experienced yacht club members seems like a good plan.

 

[SteveSarabande]

Go to portishead for your first trip, easy 3-4hrs with the tide each way. Aim to arrive and leave portishead at hw

 

[Sneds]

I would have to agreee with the Portishead option, go up with the tide and back down with the ebb, big window for locking in at either end and lots of room for calculus error

 

[howard easton]

Thanks for the input. Learning curve for me.

Stupidly I had been focussing on tide height not current direction. I have done the calculations properly and now see the issue.

Looks like about 18 miles distance will take c. 6/7 hours elapsed using the tide and anchoring when required for both the Cardiff to Watchet and the Watchet to Lynmouth legs, is that about right? Looks like I need to reset my "get there quick" timer to a " the journey is more important than the destination" mindset if I am to enjoy the Bristol Channel.

I am not opposed to motor sailing so that may ease things a bit unless the sea state makes that too uncomfortable.

Practice around Cardiff and listen to experienced yacht club members seems like a good plan.

The paritcular issue sailing from Cardiff is Lavernock where the tide changes direction almost like switching a light. So it goes from 2kn with you to 2kn against in a very short time.

In am reasonably fast 35 footer I go from Cardiff to Watchet setting off 2 hours before HW and going for it under engine. I can make it in 1 but its tight.

Dopnt make the mistake commonly made round here that you only ever go out of Cardiff and turn right. Turn left - go up to Newport or Chepstow or Thornbury. All are one tide sails.

 

[Gwylan]

+1 for the trip to Avonmouth. Get to know how the tides are and just what they can be. Also do your depths too.

Then there is Lavernock Point and getting past it.

After that there is Nash Point, others will guide you on it.

Then all the wonderful places you can get to with a 5 knot tide behind you. On the other hand you are going nowhere against the tide. But that is the joy of the upper end of the Severn Estuary.

Enjoy!

 

[Dutch01527]

The paritcular issue sailing from Cardiff is Lavernock where the tide changes direction almost like switching a light. So it goes from 2kn with you to 2kn against in a very short time.

In am reasonably fast 35 footer I go from Cardiff to Watchet setting off 2 hours before HW and going for it under engine. I can make it in 1 but its tight.

Dopnt make the mistake commonly made round here that you only ever go out of Cardiff and turn right. Turn left - go up to Newport or Chepstow or Thornbury. All are one tide sails.

Howard

Thanks - what speed under engine do you average to make Wachet in one go?

 

[nemodreams]

One advantage of tides is that they are very predicatable !

Our problem at this end of the Channel ( Weston/Cardiff ) is always getting W / SW - invaribaly one is with the tide but into the wind ! Coming back though is a breeze !

You are lucky in Cardiff to have the option of going East - thats not on from this side ( Weston )

Do your sums right and things are doable - but do not underestimate the sea state against a SW or W wind even 4 -5 !

Its fickle - even people who have sailed here for thirty odd years get caught out. It just never seems to be the same sea state - for a given tide - and a given wind speed ! It just a very complex place for tidal streams and local winds.
It also can be quite benign !
We came past Porlock a few years back - glassy smooth and misty - and heaps of debris were building up in rafts between the tidal eddies - like on the MIssissippi - straight out of Huck Finn !

Enjoy it - be careful - but not too careful - you won't ever get anywhere !

 

[steveej]

Heading west out of Cardiff you will need to be leaving around HW, and heading east you will be leaving at LW.

As mentioned above, Avonmouth/Portishead is about 3.5 to 4 hrs plus another hour up river will get you to Bristol (but you need to check the lock will be running as there are restrictions).

I find the best way to tackle Watchet is to leave Cardiff HW and go to Porlock, lay a second anchor if your worried about holding, then go ashore for a pub lunch. Leave for Watchet on the flood and aim to arrive once the gate has opened (4.5 hrs to Porlock and 1.2/2hrs to Watchet). Getting back from Watchet you either need to leave as soon as the gate opens and race back to Cardiff as fast as possible in order to not get stuck at Lavernock point. Or if the weather is nice, leave just before the gate closed HW+3 and anchor in Blue anchor bay for a couple of hours before having the full flood back up to Cardiff.

Porthcawl also takes about 4.5 hours but again heading west there is not enough water to get in when you arrive, so you need to anchor and wait for a couple of hours. Same applies to Lynmouth, Watermouth Cove and Ilfracombe. All doable on a tide. Swansea has better tidal access. Lundy is good but is about 60NM from Cardiff and the anchorage needs winds with plenty of west in them which makes getting there a beat!

I have done all these on a 22footer so 26 should be quicker.

Make sure you have good ground tackle and beware of WOT - as others have said as Ive seen some very strange sea states there.

 

[TwoHooter]

Turn left - go up to Newport or Chepstow or Thornbury. All are one tide sails.

Does anyone know what clearance (air draught) there is under the 2 bridges just before Chepstow boat club at high water neaps? Also the old Town Bridge at half tide.

 

[bitbaltic]

Does anyone know what clearance (air draught) there is under the 2 bridges just before Chepstow boat club at high water neaps? Also the old Town Bridge at half tide.

The club themselves say "about 3.5m MHWS" for the rail bridge, and "no problems" for the road bridge (presumably if you can get under the rail bridge). "minimal" for the old town bridge. http://www.chepstowboatclub.co.uk/page11.html

 

[Reptile Smile]

It's a lovely trip, but do bear in mind the strength of the tide running if you arrive there before HW - you'll need to turn back into the heavy stream to face into the current in order to crab across on to the pontoon whilst the current does it's best to sweep you under the (low) tide bridge. It's not especially a problem (if you've got your sums right), but can be quite unnerving the first time you do it..!

 

[TOKOLOSHI]

Keep closer to the Bridge supports but not too close to the bank and aim to arrive 1 to 2 hours before HW depending on tidal height and how good your engine is!
Picture shows members boats tied up with crews ashore sampling the Boat Inn ales!

 

[tatali0n]

Howard, I've only done Cardiff to Watchet once, but had no trouble making it there on the one tide without any need to hang about at the Watchet end. We did motor-sail however, as the wind was exceptionally light. Although I'd have to check my log to be sure, I think we left Cardiff a couple of hours before HW, punched the tide out beyond Flatholm then rode the ebb the rest of the way.

If your interested, I wrote about it here: scapegoatsanon.blogspot.co.uk/..../watchet-belated-report

Watchet aside, I can certainly recommend the Cardiff to Portishead run, it's our bread and butter default "go-to" for a day trip or weekend out, albeit from the other way around as we're based in Portishead. Getting washed up past Clevedon through the Bristol Deep is the only time I've ever had 12kts speed over the ground out of our 26' Griffon