Shocking shrinkage of Yachting Monthly.

I expect that the forums are highly profitable. Perhaps it's time that we had "Supported by Scuttlebutt" printed across the top of the Yachting Monthly cover ...[/QUOTE]
Where does the income come from running the forums? There is very limited advertising ( or is that because I am using adblock)?
 
Sybarite said:
I find that French magazine boat reviews are generally much better illustrated than in the UK mags. What I like is to try to imagine myself living inside a boat by seeing for myself what it is like rather than having it described to me. Of course comments would add to the illustrations.

In addition boat reviews often include a review of the places visited and so the review reads a bit like a blog.
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One of the major constraints for UK mags is that so few boats are made in the UK so they are reliant on local dealers or travelling to other countries to find a demonstrator. For example, this month's review is in Holland, last month's was in Croatia. They often have to share with other journalists. The rare Scandinavian ones are usually longer tests and often have a travelogue section as well.

The reality is that most boats that manufacturers want to promote have little interest to UK buyers. How many Bestavaer 45s or even Bavaria 57s are going to be sold in UK? The used boat reviews are probably of more value to the typical reader/buyer. Beneteau 36cc this month, Westerly Konsort last.
 
Billy Blue said:
I expect that the forums are highly profitable. Perhaps it's time that we had "Supported by Scuttlebutt" printed across the top of the Yachting Monthly cover ...
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Where does the income come from running the forums? There is very limited advertising ( or is that because I am using adblock)?[/QUOTE]

We are told they are roughly revenue neutral which tells you a lot about the business acumen of the owners!
 
JumbleDuck said:
Well, there's your problem, right there. Most specialist magazines (Yachting Monthly, Brides and Setting Up Home, Sailplane and Gliding, ...) depended previously on a steady flow of newcomers, keen to find out about whatever it is.
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Good point. I used to enthusiastically read leisure/hobby mags when we first started out many many years ago, when we were learning something new each issue, and reading about stuff that was new to us. Over time experience nullified the reason for buying specialist mags. Then they became occasional, relegated to coffee table, then only for long train or long haul flights, but after a while found them boring and repetitive. Add to that online media and you can see paper media is a sunset industry except for some coffee table publications who's business model is solely advertising. Another option is to become quarterly with decent content supplemented by a dynamic online presence.
 
Saguday said:
The automatic use of spelling checkers is the principal cause of the increase in typos
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I don't understand that comment. Spelling-checkers may result in the wrong word being used, but the typos I see (several per page) are not valid words and thus would be caught by a spelling checker (or a reasonably diligent read-through!)...

Mike.
 
johnalison said:
I've just flipped through my copy. In terms of reading matter, it seems much the same as ever. The paper is thin, but I can't say I mind, though I never thought I would miss the fun of looking at adverts.
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Yes, the editorial content seems to be similar to usual - just lots less adverts.

If the criticisers can do better then please show us how .....

The writing is clearly on the wall for paper based reading materials (magazines, newspapers and books), but the world will be a poorer place when these paper magazines have all gone.
 
JumbleDuck said:
YM tried that "100 point boat test" idea, but it fizzled out very quickly, perhaps because everything scored 82% +/- 3%. It was an odd system, anyway, which rated a separate chart table equally important to seaworthiness.



In the days when it was a sailing magazine and not a lifestyle one, Sailing Today used to revisit equipment after a year or more of service and review it again in their (then) pleasantly sardonic style.
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I have to confess that the 100 point test lost me completely. They would give a saloon a glowing review and then give it 7 out of 10 - there was no connection between the write up and the scores. Mind you the current system is no better. Last months review of the Bavaria C57 with a 2.52m draft gives the boat zero stars for creek crawling. Who would have guessed it? You would hope that most of the readership of YM would have a reasonable clue as to which boats make good creek crawlers and which ones are good for high latitude adventures?
 
dunedin said:
Yes, the editorial content seems to be similar to usual - just lots less adverts.

If the criticisers can do better then please show us how .....

The writing is clearly on the wall for paper based reading materials (magazines, newspapers and books), but the world will be a poorer place when these paper magazines have all gone.
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Not all of them but PBO/YM are so utterly predictable in content, nothing shocks or surprises. Nothing ground breaking or investigative, just enough content to keep a new reader interested for about a year then somehow hope to get a replacement reader when that one gets bored and stops buying it. Online they have the biggest presence by far in the U.K. and if they worked at it they could build it to be the biggest in the world and then use that to build an online boating magazine that was both interactive and genuinely innovative. Instead the most dramatic thing that's happened to ybw.com was the change in the for sale maximum from £250 to £400 a year or so ago :sleeping: we write all the content and keep it relevant.
 
RobF said:
You would hope that most of the readership of YM would have a reasonable clue as to which boats make good creek crawlers and which ones are good for high latitude adventures?
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I have a sneaking suspicion that by "high latitude adventures" they mean "north of Land's End" ...
 
dunedin said:
Yes, the editorial content seems to be similar to usual - just lots less adverts.

If the criticisers can do better then please show us how .....

The writing is clearly on the wall for paper based reading materials (magazines, newspapers and books), but the world will be a poorer place when these paper magazines have all gone.
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If I had the skills and expertise to turn YM around I don't think I'd be giving my ideas away for free on here.

All I can do is speak as a former and potentially future reader. And that I'm afraid is that I have no interest in buying it. I gave up because I found there was too much 'sameness' and too many articles where I felt "I could've written that".

Even if they do improve it and add more variety and depth I guess I'll only ever know from the rave reviews on this forum, but when that happens I may gave it a try one month.
 
Sailing's dying ergo sailing magazines are dying, not really a shock eh?

*EDIT*

Should say I've started buying PBO's from the '60's and '70's from ebay (£2 a pop - way better value for a start, not £6 for one poxy fkn article) as they're way more interesting in terms of content and style than today's offering, infact one PBO i bought from the early '90's was like reading a different magazine such was the subject matter compared to todays version.

And therein lies the problem - the internet - if looking / buying these sailing mags purely for technical info / reviews; thats all possible now at the click of a mouse and normally free, and usually you'll get a more honest appraisal rather than a fluff piece / advertorial which passes for most 'reviews' these days. Personally i'm surprised these mags are still going given the economic environment, i think over time these magazines will be forced online-only then eventually out of business......................
 
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Colvic Watson said:
Not all of them but PBO/YM are so utterly predictable in content, nothing shocks or surprises. Nothing ground breaking or investigative, just enough content to keep a new reader interested for about a year then somehow hope to get a replacement reader when that one gets bored and stops buying it. Online they have the biggest presence by far in the U.K. and if they worked at it they could build it to be the biggest in the world and then use that to build an online boating magazine that was both interactive and genuinely innovative. Instead the most dramatic thing that's happened to ybw.com was the change in the for sale maximum from £250 to £400 a year or so ago :sleeping: we write all the content and keep it relevant.
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I take it you do not read them? As a contributor to both I disagree with almost everything you say. The same topics come up from time to time, e.g. in the current YM there is a piece about awkward berths, but the treatment differs every time, with new photos and often new approaches. There is plenty of innovative stuff in both mags, for example PBO building a kit boat - when did they do that last? This is an excellent series, which even though I do not have the slightest intention of repeating I read with great interest. Their experience of techniques discovered during the building have been invaluable.

As for my own contributions, I challenge you to point at any other magazine that prints similar material. I don't set out to shock but what I write, as far as I know, is original.
 
vyv_cox said:
I take it you do not read them? As a contributor to both I disagree with almost everything you say. The same topics come up from time to time, e.g. in the current YM there is a piece about awkward berths, but the treatment differs every time, with new photos and often new approaches. There is plenty of innovative stuff in both mags, for example PBO building a kit boat - when did they do that last? This is an excellent series, which even though I do not have the slightest intention of repeating I read with great interest. Their experience of techniques discovered during the building have been invaluable.

As for my own contributions, I challenge you to point at any other magazine that prints similar material. I don't set out to shock but what I write, as far as I know, is original.
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I had a PBO subscription for two years until the spring of this year and I was never knowingly underwhelmed. I'd turn first to the ask the experts section, then the PBO readers ideas and modifications section, then the new gear section, then the Hantu Biru (spl?) article. All four absolutely fascinating and took about 20 minutes to read. That's it! Vyv I hear what you say but then Snooks and other YM/PBO contributors also tell us we are wrong and it all sounds like the management of LIBS who tell us every year we are wrong. Meanwhile for want of a dynamic, innovative and non risk averse editor the magazines are dying on their feet - look at the circulation figures!

Then imagine what an incredible thing an internet based interactive magazine could be, where mag and forum blend to create an exciting, investigative and knowledge-sharing piece of edutainment. It won't happen, you look at it all and it's just like all slowly dying institutions where Max Frisch's quote sums them up "when a man is more afraid of change than disaster, what will he do when he sees impending catastrophe?" Shame, I used to like the mags.
 
guardian said:
Sailing's dying ergo sailing magazines are dying, not really a shock eh?
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I don't think sailing is dying, but I think long term commitment to sailing and boat ownership are dying. The sort of people who have fun on a couple of flotilla holidays before trekking to Macchu Picchu instead are probably not interested in the traditional UK yachting magazine obsessions of double-clipped hoses and flag etiquette.

vyv_cox said:
There is plenty of innovative stuff in both mags, for example PBO building a kit boat - when did they do that last?
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I was going to point that out as an example of a stunningly boring series. I don't think I have ever managed to read a whole episode, because they are all the bleedin' same. "This month we stick some more bits of wood together, just like we did last month. Coming up next month: we stick some bits of wood together." Teeeeedious. The Hantu Biru series, on the other hand, was fascinating - I bought the collected version - because every month had a different problem and a different set of skills to resolve it.

Almost all tales of other people's cruises are boring in the extreme (it's a bit like going round to see next door's holiday slides, ca. 1973) though Richard Stilgoe's tales in YM were an honourable exception. "Ask The Experts" has far too many amateurs (not you!) posing as experts. Getting into awkward berths is a recurring theme which proves, every time, that what could be well done with 60 seconds of video on Youtube can't be done at all in five pages of a borrowed boat photographed beside a pontoon. And isn't it funny that Britain's most awkward berths are all within a bike ride of the editorial base?

And ... relax.

Sorry, Vyv, although there are some occasional good bits, and I expect there are a lot more good bits to newcomers, after a fairly short while it all becomes pretty repetitive. I have copies of PBO 2, 3 and 4 (my father was a little late to the party) and most of the articles in them could be lightly edited and reprinted today.
 
lpdsn said:
If I had the skills and expertise to turn YM around I don't think I'd be giving my ideas away for free on here.

All I can do is speak as a former and potentially future reader. And that I'm afraid is that I have no interest in buying it. I gave up because I found there was too much 'sameness' and too many articles where I felt "I could've written that".

Even if they do improve it and add more variety and depth I guess I'll only ever know from the rave reviews on this forum, but when that happens I may gave it a try one month.
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Dont take this the wrong way but define "improve" What would you or others like to see? I personally like the electronic articles in PBO, actually making things on "breadboards" I like the making of the boat in PBO, not so much the making of it but the technical details about how to do fillets in epoxy etc. I like stories about trips made by readers. More in depth stories about entering strange ports. For example, and Im not bragging, but my story about Figueira Da Foz this month, I wish I had had that info for entering there before I did. Whilst the pilots are good, they never convey what it us actually like! La Linea where we are now, do a Google and you get old stuff about "a hot and dusty walk" " dinghys being stolen" etc and yet when you get here you find it is a modern, well run, clean, well priced marina! I didnt recognise the place from the descriptions I had seen! I see another story coming on!
Stu
 
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