Shipkiller: Nautor Swan

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Neil

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Once upon a time, in my youth, a long long time ago, I read a book called Shipkiller, by Justin Scott. While I knew nothing of sailing, I still enjoyed the book as a gripping thriller. It contains considerable detail on long distance short-handed sailing in heavy weather as a backdrop to the story. Now that I have recently turned my attention to sailing, I thought I'd re-read the book with the benefit of at least a sparse modicum of sailing knowledge. The book is out of print, but available on-line second hand.

The boat featured in the book is a Nautor Swan 38, and was highly praised. I thought I'd look it up and saw this:

http://www.apolloduck.ie/display.phtml?aid=128902

For a 1974 boat, admittedly very well maintained and upgraded, the price seems quite high. Is it justified by it's quality?
 
Price is about the going rate. Depending on the condition you can get some large variations in price, but most are owned by people who love them and lavish attention on them.

The 38s are lovely boats. Either for crusing or racing. Fantasticly strong sea boats. S&S Swans have a very strong following with their own club (classicswan.org). Believe there were a couple in this years Ostar.

Without wanting to spark another long debait, you pays your money you take your choice.
 
Neil said:
For a 1974 boat, admittedly very well maintained and upgraded, the price seems quite high. Is it justified by it's quality?
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"Virtually everything replaced in the last 10 years including new teak deck"

Even if he bought it for half that price, I suspect the seller will be losing money on it.
 
Well, it costs the same to put a new deck or engine into a 'cheap' boat as it does to do the same to a classic Swan. But at the end of the day you are either sitting on a Swan or a mab!
So imo, that example at £90k looks ok. Afaik masts, rudders and keels remain soundly attached to Nautors throughout their long hardworking lives..
 
I remember 'Shipkiller', bit melodramatic and slightly improbable, but no worse than many thrillers of the day. The bit about inventing the digital thermometer was quite good.
A
 
Very optimistically priced. For instance the rod rigging is at the end of its life.

They sail well but slowly and are very cramped below.
 
Consider a Rival For Much Less In Price

There are a few Rival Yachts around and for sale. These too are very seaworthy boats, nice lines and good build quality. The same comments made previously would apply to the Rivals as well. Same vintage as the Swan but significantly cheaper.

http://www.rivalowners.org.uk/noticeboard/forsale/forsale.htm

There is also a 38' model but none for sale on this web page. Worth considering and a well respected hull. A few have raced.
 
In the novel, they are described as being a fast boat - is this only by 70's standards or is it literary license?
 
Neil said:
In the novel, they are described as being a fast boat - is this only by 70's standards or is it literary license?
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By 70 standards they were competitive on speed. Upwind they are probably still fastish. In light airs they will be slow. Many boats from the mid 80s onwards will be faster and by today's standards she will be slow for an equivalent size of yacht.

Sailed well she will be competitive on handicap if you wish to race her.

What do you want to do cruise / race / both / local waters / offshore?
 
There were (are?) a couple of Swan 38's for charter - Acco and Cimaroon. Loads of folks must have sailed these out of Falmouth or the Solent. As one 6 foot and then some crew member observed, 'a gentleman's yacht - for very small gentlemen'.
Lovely lines, great on the wind if a bit wet: not too much freeboard by modern standards . A joy to sail - not sure about owning one tho.....
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
By 70 standards they were competitive on speed. Upwind they are probably still fastish. In light airs they will be slow. Many boats from the mid 80s onwards will be faster and by today's standards she will be slow for an equivalent size of yacht.

Sailed well she will be competitive on handicap if you wish to race her.

What do you want to do cruise / race / both / local waters / offshore?
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A Swan 38 finished third in class 4 in West Highland week in 2008, and that was a light year. We were second in a Finngulf 33 much lighter and a bit more modern, but we would not have beaten her if there had been more wind, the clear winner was a Dufour 41 Classic which went really well in all conditions. The class of over 30 boats was white sail but included 33'-48' Bavs. Hanses, Jeanneaus and Beneteaus so was representative if what is about.
There is nothing to match them for quality or performance from that era.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
By 70 standards they were competitive on speed. Upwind they are probably still fastish. In light airs they will be slow. Many boats from the mid 80s onwards will be faster and by today's standards she will be slow for an equivalent size of yacht.

Sailed well she will be competitive on handicap if you wish to race her.

What do you want to do cruise / race / both / local waters / offshore?
Click to expand...

How do the swans of the 80's (Holland/Frers) compare with the S&S Swans in the performance stakes, did the yachts get lighter in the 80's? I assume the weight of the boat is the reason they will be slow in light airs?
 
Go onto the Swan website and you can browse through the historical models page and see how they evolved.

http://www.nautorswan.com/Company/HistoricalModels/tabid/149/Default.aspx

The Holland designed swans were competitive boats under the IOR race handicap system unitl the late 70's early 80's and in general, they became beamier, lighter displacement, less wetted surface and had more powerful sailplans than the slimmer, prettier S&S designs.

They were still strong & seaworthy and remain sought after today although less pleasing on the eye (in my opinion).
 
The Swan will always be a top quality, top boat just dependent on maintenance and condition.

I read 'Shipkiller', towards the end when the boat has been through a lot she is described as having been brought down to the abilities of an average run-of-the-mill boat, which seems reasonable.

One bit I remember is the prospective buyer first being shown a duff boat which has been 'hogged', he detects this by the hatch sticking which has some truth in it.

Other aspects of the book were rather less realisitic, particularly the missile guidance and warhead effect which was a load of cobblers, though still far better than something like 'Firefox' !
 
It's certainly faster than a Rival 38 and about as fast as most cruiser racers of her day - very similar to the equivaalent Sweden Yachts or Baltic models, for example. Handles very well upwind but can be/is skittish downwind.

I agree with Doris (because we've discussed it) that the interior layout is not brilliant for cruising and Nautor in those days always seemed to have trouble getting the after end of the accommodation right.

I also think £90,000 is optimistic.
 
Would S&S have designed the interior for Nautor also? Do the 80's Swans of similar size have better interiors for cruisers?
 
I sailed hundreds of miles (probably thousands) in a Swan 411. S&S design. 1977 build. Smaller below than a modern 40 footer, but very liveable, very solid and coped with up to ten crew when racing, six of us very comfortable when cruising.

Doubt that I'm fit enough now to short tack it though!
 
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