Shell engine oil API CD

Well I did not expect this thread to go on for such a long time!!!

Vyv, I for one will continue to search out and use an API CD rated oil. others would do well well to do the same, but that is always up to individual choice.

I once thought the same as some others on this thread that 'Semi synthetic is the best choice', that a 'better' oil is best for my engine. I'll tell you how my mind was changed. I was buying oil and fuel filters from an independent marine engine service/repair/replacement outlet. The day I visited the chap who owns the company, with many years of experience behind him was there. I turned my nose up at the basic Shell (CD rated) I was offered for the oil change, I said I would prefer to get some 'high tech' stuff from, say, Halfords. The owner of the company, overhearing the conversation chipped in, saying. "Thats handy for for me, with my business, but not so for you. You see I'm make a couple of quid on the oil, but an engine replacement is where I really make my profit. I see more knackered engines 'loved to death' where owners have used posh oil and those who have been afraid to give the engine a good thrash than I do for any other reason". "Uh?" Says I. "Yes posh synthetic oil and or low revs will kill an engine with glazed bores", he went on to say.

In later years with more experience, everything he said to that day has been backed up with information gleaned from this forum and other places. I wish the Likes of Vyv Cox had a web site 15 years ago, it would have made making an informed choice then a lot easier, leaving a lot less to a chance meeting in a suppliers shop.

Two further points. Are marine engines being made now that will utilise modern oils? Second question, what will we all do when the last CD oil disappears?
 
galadriel said:
I see more knackered engines 'loved to death' where owners have used posh oil and those who have been afraid to give the engine a good thrash than I do for any other reason". "Uh?" Says I. "Yes posh synthetic oil and or low revs will kill an engine with glazed bores", he went on to say.
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The low revs, or perhaps more to the point excessive idling thing I would agree with. But I'm not so sure that synth oil is more prone to bore glazing that basic mineral. Would this effect be different in a diesel to a petrol engine?

The flip side of this is that an engine with glazed bores can be fixed with a cylinder hone and some new rings, if the oil has been looking after the bearings, camgear and what have you. Of course this may be seen as old fashioned or un-economic nowadays, better to have a whole new engine if the old one starts to smoke.

Some people believe that some engines will not 'run in' properly on synthetic oil. I have sen heated debates about whether to change from mineral to synth at 500 or 1500 miles.

You pays yer money....
 
On the question of synthetic oils, I was under the impression that they were ok on most engines once they had bedded in. On a 1996 Mercedes diesel we did about 2000 miles on mineral oil and then converted to Magnetec, which we still use with its having done 220,000 miles, and with no discernable oil consumption between services. With older engines, eg worn, I am not sure that synthetic is a good idea. I think that the old Shell oil, will be fine, but will not have the same ph control for the same period as a modern oil. In the case of boats its is almost irrelevant anyway, because most careful owners, tend to change the oil whether it needs it or not. ( Ph control is more of a problem on diesels, as they produce more acid radicles, then petrol, which is why the service intervals were always shorter on diesel engines)
 
oil

I think that a lot of the mis-information, confusion on this subject is caused by Volvo Penta.
This company markets an oil which they claim is suitable for all of their marine engines regardless of use, they can't be bothered to distinguish between high revving mobos and the small low revving Japanese Perkins engines they rebadge and sell to yacht builders. But then after care was always their weak point, remember their response to the gearbox spline issue on the 2000 series.
The explanations that Vyv Cox has given are technical, clear and make sense, they have been widely published in reputable Yachting Magazines and VP has never contradicted them.
I took two different VP marine diesels out of boats for service each after about 15 years use, they went to a specialist diesel workshop, not a marine one, but dealing mainly with construction machinery, Land Rovers, trucks etc. they were dismantled on the bench, bearings replaced and the bores honed. The proprieter of the place at first refused to order a Volvo Penta service kit because he regarded the prices for gaskets etc. as exorbitant. He was doing a BMW estate car engine at the same time and the bits were less than half the price. He said each time that neither engine had really needed service but both would benefit from the honing, and warned me to stick to mineral oil. My current engine is labelled Volvo Penta (D 130) though they did not make it, but I would not run it on their synthetic oil.
 
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Quote Quandary "My current engine is labelled Volvo Penta (D 130) though they did not make it, but I would not run it on their synthetic oil."

I am getting confused now, I thought the Volvo marine diesel oil was mineral not synthetic?
 
I am getting confused now, I thought the Volvo marine diesel oil was mineral not synthetic?[/QUOTE]

Described as 'VDS-3 synthetic diesel engine oil'
(Volvo Penta are so far up themselves that they have invented their own oil designations, I am sure that it is not a deliberate intention to confuse ?)
 
Shells Rimula C replacements

I had this note back from the dead of Shell Lubricants

Christopher, the equivalent to Rimula C 15-40 is Rimula R2 Extra 15-40 or if that is difficult to find Helix Diesel HX5 15 -40 is the same spec and available in Shell petrol stations, both products are higher specs than Rimula C. Regards David

They are both mineral oils, - rate CF-4. Shell guys recomend it for us.

But as they are difficult to find, and I won't pay the price on a garage forecourt, I have gone to Morris, and this is what their guy recommended for old Volvos etc.

http://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=97&product=Magnol+15w/40

As Vyv says - Shell is not really interested in this market place.
 
Chris_Robb said:
I had this note back from the dead of Shell Lubricants

Christopher, the equivalent to Rimula C 15-40 is Rimula R2 Extra 15-40 or if that is difficult to find Helix Diesel HX5 15 -40 is the same spec and available in Shell petrol stations, both products are higher specs than Rimula C. Regards David

They are both mineral oils, - rate CF-4. Shell guys recomend it for us.

But as they are difficult to find, and I won't pay the price on a garage forecourt, I have gone to Morris, and this is what their guy recommended for old Volvos etc.

http://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=97&product=Magnol+15w/40

As Vyv says - Shell is not really interested in this market place.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris for the research, Morris Magnol, as recommended by Galadriel on 23 Dec.
 
Chaps if You need information on oils or a supply of API CD etc etc
Have a look at www.rockoil.co.uk

Call them for info
They Will help
Independant 'brewers' founded 80 years ago.

I was a Distributor for them 18 years ago
No commercial interest now
But from time to time I have had expert and sound advice from the Firm
 
BP Vannelus 15w 40

I wonder how this oil rates? The data sheet information doesn't seem to refer to Base numbers or even the normal classifications. VY whats your view?

http://datasheets.bp.com/BPGlis/lsdsukf.nsf/0/6D1AA906AB03A75B8025759E00290829/$file/296706.pdf

If it's any good 20 litres for £43 seems good value:

http://www.geo-broughton.co.uk/Product.aspx?prod=8545&cat=100
 
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NigelBirch said:
I wonder how this oil rates? The data sheet information doesn't seem to refer to Base numbers or even the normal classifications. VY whats your view?

http://datasheets.bp.com/BPGlis/lsdsukf.nsf/0/6D1AA906AB03A75B8025759E00290829/$file/296706.pdf

If it's any good 20 litres for £43 seems good value:

http://www.geo-broughton.co.uk/Product.aspx?prod=8545&cat=100
Click to expand...

You have posted the safety data sheet - no good for deciding on whether its good for you or not.
 
For what its worth..

I've used Shell oils for ever including a race car. Never had a complaint.

However, for my Volvo TDM 20, after reading the manuals I changed to mineral oils; this was necessary because the engine consumed too much oil due to light use and easy life. After 150 hours on mineral oil, the consumption has decreased considerably.

The reason is simple... the PO was an electric hog and ran the engine (as a electrical source) at low rpm for hours thereby glazing the cylinders.

I run the motor harder now. Diesels like some tough going:D
 
grumpygit said:
OK as I said in my first post on this topic "the more you look into it the more confusing it can become" and yes I have read your web site and it has some contradictions as far as I read it.
The reason I looked into engine oil types was because my engine is and has been on semi synthetic since it was put into commission in 1997 but the service manual says use no less than API CD which as you know is a mineral based oil. Ha, guess what I found it was obsolete, so where do I go from here.

Should I leave it on semi or change to a mineral oil? Not CD because I can't find it. The boats was in Italy and at the time I was in the UK. I tried Italy, Croatia and Greece with no avail. The engine runs as sweet as a nut, it's done 3.2k hrs and starts first push with no pre heat no matter what the ambient temperature is, and in all this time has never had a spanner on the engine other than for
service requirements.

I had great difficulty obtaining any information on mineral/semi/fully types of oils for my engine from Perkins, oil manufacturers and suppliers, marine engineers and engine rebuilders.
I have read numerous articles on oil types on numerous web sites and still did not come up with answers I felt happy with mainly because of contradictions between them all.
So ok, CD oil was first designed in 1955 and was made obsolete in 1996,

So why was it made obsolete if it's specified by major engine manufacturers? What is the difference say between CD an CF or any other C type oils for that matter?

As your web page states "Engine lubricants may be considered as having two main components: the base oil and the additive package" what does the additive package consist of?
It also states "Yacht engine operation, however, has not changed in the slightest. " may be not, but the engine has? As in improvements of materials, machining in it's production, different injection, indirect to direct and even to HDI in some cases, also cleaner fuels now red is being phased out, but we have to use road fuel in the rest of the EC.

My engine (Perkins Sabre) is used in road and plant applications. Fair enough road is different to plant but surely plant application is as near to yacht operation as you can get, i.e. gen sets, excavators and so on, as in running at constant speeds and fairly static temperatures. On my questions to the operators of these uses all sorts of types of engine oils where used.

I don't want to enter a battle over oils more that I and may be others just need to understand more on oils without getting bogged down in waffle.What should be used and what not, what's available and what's not?

The answer to my dilemma has been to change the oil and filters annually. After all a couple of gallons of oil and filters is a cheap spanner in my view.

__________________________________________________________________---
"It's the profit that makes all things expensive"........................................
Click to expand...
The difference between a yacht engine and all the examples that you listed is that that the plant engines run at a constant high temp for a lot longer than the majority of yacht engines.
Stu
 
NigelBirch said:
I wonder how this oil rates? The data sheet information doesn't seem to refer to Base numbers or even the normal classifications. VY whats your view?

http://datasheets.bp.com/BPGlis/lsdsukf.nsf/0/6D1AA906AB03A75B8025759E00290829/$file/296706.pdf

If it's any good 20 litres for £43 seems good value:

http://www.geo-broughton.co.uk/Product.aspx?prod=8545&cat=100
Click to expand...

Difficult to say without all the information. The BP Vanellus page doesn't recognise that particular grade but I note that they offer nothing less than API CF, and that's for monogrades. Why not give them a call.
 
Chris_Robb said:
You have posted the safety data sheet - no good for deciding on whether its good for you or not.
Click to expand...

Quite right. Having found the tech sheet this has a TBN of 10.5 which I think is too high..
In the meantime I've found Morris Lubricants GoldenFilm SAE-30 which has a TBN of 4 and is rated API CC would certainly do for my Bukh.....
 
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