Sheet Bend /Double Sheet Bend

[jimi]

I was always under the impression tha the sheet bend was for joning ropes of equal diameter and the double sheet bend for ropes where the diameter is different. I have been "corrected" and told that the sheet bend is also used for ropes of different diameter. Am I right or am I wrong?

 

[Vara]

A sheet bend can be used for either, but most of the knot books/sites would indicate a double where the ropes are very different in diam.. They of course don't quantify that statement.

 

[Malabar]

Traditionally the sheet Bend is used for ropes of unequal diameter. You "double it" when extra security is needed e.g. when slinging your hammock. The reef knot is supposed to be used for ropes of equal diameter, but often I use the sheet bend instead.

 

[bromleybysea]

I was taught that the reef knot was only to be used as a binding knot- hence the name. If used without being backed by something solid it can rotate and capsize. Sheet bend is the knot for joining two ropes. doubled when they are of unequal size with the first loop formed in the thicker rope.

 

[savageseadog]

In my climbing and caving days I trusted my life to double sheet bends but not single. To be honest the single sheet bend doesn't look like much of a knot when you're about to hang hundreds of foot off the ground but they do the same job.

 

[Slow_boat]

A reef knot is more likely to loosen and fall apart on a line that is thrashing continualy or going from taught to slack.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Sheet bends also fall apart when alternating slack and taut. Says he, with feeling . . .

 

[Cotillion]

As I see it, a reef knot is for securing the dangly bits of a reefed sail. Being as it is quick to tie and easy to undo, it's probably ill advised to use it for anything more strenuous.

 

[Cornishman]

I quote from The Efficient Deck Hand by C H Wright formerly of the National Sea Training School (Liverpool)

Reef Knot. Used to join together two ends of rope that are of equal thickness and circumference. When properly made will not slip. UNSAFE when used with ropes of differing circumference or texture.

Single Sheet Bend. Used to join two ends of rope that are of unequal circumference or texture. When properly made will not slip. (Take the lighter rope through and around the bight of the heavier rope)

Double sheet bend. A more secure version of the single sheet bend. Always to be used when making fast a gantline to a bosun's chair.

The Efficient Deck Hand is described as A Guide to Examinations for for Efficient Deck Hand (EDH) and Able Seaman(AB). Candidates are expected to give those answers when being examined.

 

[jrt]

A sheet bend is for natural fibres. Adouble sheet bend is for ropes of unequal size, and for man made fibres.

 

[moody1]

[ QUOTE ]
A sheet bend is for natural fibres. Adouble sheet bend is for ropes of unequal size, and for man made fibres.

[/ QUOTE ]

It may be of interest to note that when these knots were devised, man-made fibres were not around. In short your answer appears wrong.
Consulting Dantons and Admiralty Seamanship manuals give that the double Sheet-Bend is to give added security to the knot.

 

[vyv_cox]

AFAIK a sheet bend is a bowline turned round another way. I am guessing that a bowline is always tied in rope of equal size (i.e. the same one) so presumably a sheet bend is the same. This is not what I was taught, so it's got me thinking.

 

[damo]

I read the answer (which I agree with BTW) that sheet bends are generally not suitable for modern slippery fibres, so a double sheet bend is a better choice. I think we all know the majority of knots, bends and hitches were discovered long before nylon et al /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jimi]

I suspect a lot of the accepted knowledge actually relates to natural fibre ropes when knots that had got wet and then dried were an absolute bastid to undo, therefore saemanship created a standard for ease of undoing which also (only just)satisfied security ... why else use a reef knot for joining equal diameter ropes .. where a sheet bend is more secure .. and use a single sheet bend for unequal diameter, when a double sheet bend is more secure? Perhaps with modern ropes we ought to challenge the accepted wisdom? eg Locking turns on cleats are no an issue with modern man made fibre ropes whereas they were a very real danger with natural fibre ropes?

 

[BlueSkyNick]

[ QUOTE ]

Reef Knot. Used to join together two ends of rope that are of equal thickness and circumference. When properly made will not slip. UNSAFE when used with ropes of differing circumference or texture.

Single Sheet Bend. Used to join two ends of rope that are of unequal circumference or texture. When properly made will not slip. (Take the lighter rope through and around the bight of the heavier rope)

Double sheet bend. A more secure version of the single sheet bend.


[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly as I was taught in the Sea Scouts, as a teenager.

 

[roger]

There are a lot of knots which are insecure in synthetic rope. I don't like figures of eight fro stopper knots on sheets for that reason and have devised a double turn thumb knot which seems better. (Obviously other people have probably made them befor but I've not seen one. The Ashley book of knots I think refers to a reef as fit only for reefs because it upsets.
The bowline and the round turn and two half hitches are nearly always secure in my experience in synthetic rope.
I've seen two bowlines recommended for joining tow ropes but think its very clumsy. A pair of thumb knots, each tied round th e standing part of the other rope seems to me to be secure and is a lot tidier.

 

[damo]

So a reef knot in modern materials "When properly made will not slip"?

It can ONLY be made one way, otherwise it wouldn't be a reef knot, and I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Have you ever watched how this knot behaves when under load? - you can watch it creeping!

 

[damo]

I think your stopper knot, which is what I also use for the same reason, is half a double-fisherman's. The other joining knot you describe is a single fisherman's.

The double-fisherman's is what many climbers use for joining abseil ropes together. (They definitely would NOT use a reef knot on it's own! And most would never have heard of a sheet bend, double or not, anyway /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

 

[peterb]

Try making a sheetbend from two very different thicknesses of rope, say 4mm and 20mm. You'll find that the thicker rope straightens out and the thinner rope just slides off. It needs something better to keep the thicker rope bent.

So go to a double sheet bend. Much better at keeping the thicker rope bent, but even now, if the two thicknesses are very different, it may not be sufficient.

Why limit it to double? Try a quadruple or even quintuple sheet bend, with the thinner rope making four or five turns round the thicker. You'll find that the construction of the knot becomes much clearer, as well as the knot becoming much more resistant to the thicker rope capsizing and straightening.

 

[santeana]

Interestingly in the "marinews" animated knots site they make a comment on the sheet bend I've not heard before - "....the Sheet Bend should be tied with both ends on one side of the knot. Experiments by Cyrus Day, way back in 1935 revealed that when tied with ends on opposing sides, the knot tend to give way more readily."