dancingwithmoons
Well-Known Member
A multi hull
Shallow Draft Cruising Boat.... Suggestions Wanted
- Thread starter Romeo
- Start date
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Any of the Seals or Parkers. I have a 31', quite frequently beached it.
Only potential problem would be mast lowering. Performancewise would knock most of the recommendations, size for size, into a cocked hat.
Only problem few on offer and prices high.
Only potential problem would be mast lowering. Performancewise would knock most of the recommendations, size for size, into a cocked hat.
Only problem few on offer and prices high.
Romeo
Well-Known Member
How does she handle under power with the keel up? My experience of smaller round bilge boats with fair amount of windage, (hunter medina is popular around here) is that when they have their keels up, in the slightest breeze, they rely on their fenders rather than their tillers when entering harbour, because they simply have no grip on the water under power. Is that different for the bigger boats like the parker 31? I am also a bit concerned about the vulnerability of the rudder, if that is going to be the first part of the boat to find the shopping trolleys on the bottom of the canals. Any thoughts?
Seajet
...
Romeo,
you raise a fair point. On my A22 the ballast bulb always gives grip, and she steers fine with the rudder part raised - vertically on a pintle the whole depth of the transom - a dinghy style pivoting blade may well have awful handling part raised.
Lift keel boats where the keel retracts fully into the hull ( making the bottom very vulnerable drying out on some seabeds ) would have to leave a bit of keel down motoring, both for grip and protecting the part raised rudder.
you raise a fair point. On my A22 the ballast bulb always gives grip, and she steers fine with the rudder part raised - vertically on a pintle the whole depth of the transom - a dinghy style pivoting blade may well have awful handling part raised.
Lift keel boats where the keel retracts fully into the hull ( making the bottom very vulnerable drying out on some seabeds ) would have to leave a bit of keel down motoring, both for grip and protecting the part raised rudder.
Romeo
Well-Known Member
I was reckoning that twin rudders would be too vulnerable at the sides of the canals, which is why I mentioned them as undesirable in the OP. Feel free to persuade me otherwise though!
roblpm
Well-Known Member
I just bought a Parker 275, not in the water yet so will report back later!
But when going through a similar exercise as you one of the main criteria seemed to be the age of the available boats. Some of the undoubtedly fine suggestions so far will mean buying a 30 plus year old boat. I decided 20 or so was my limit, ie 90s on and am happy so far with the cost/work or lack of it to get going. (actually have spent a load but all not strictly necessary!)
But when going through a similar exercise as you one of the main criteria seemed to be the age of the available boats. Some of the undoubtedly fine suggestions so far will mean buying a 30 plus year old boat. I decided 20 or so was my limit, ie 90s on and am happy so far with the cost/work or lack of it to get going. (actually have spent a load but all not strictly necessary!)
Kukri
Well-Known Member
A friend has a Barbican 33 - she is a really nice boat, sails well, pretty and solid. A Maurice Griffiths design in GRP.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That would have been my suggestion, but even the centreboard version exceeds the maximum draft requirement.
Problem with many modern hull shapes and centreboards or lifting keels is the lack of directional stability under motor with the keel up. Some of the french boats such as Jeanneaus have a shallow external keel which helps, but commonly also twin rudders.
The smaller Southerlys will fit the bill as the keel can be lowered a bit on the ram to help stability.
Wooden Boat Fittings
Well-Known Member
Not a problem with bilge-keelers though. Have a look at some of the Griffiths designs -- Eventide, Waterwitch, Lone Gull, etc. Yes. I know they're old-fashioned' by fibreglass standards -- not Jeuneaus, or Batteaus, or whatever, -- but they're damn' fine seaworthy boats, and they'll do exactly what you want.
Mike
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Problem with bilge keels for the specific requirement is that the canals are shallow at the edges and bilge keels can limit the ability to moor close to a bank.
BTW I have owned an Eventide for 35 years - but no bilge keels and a deeper main keel.
Wooden Boat Fittings
Well-Known Member
On the other hand, my YM 3-Tonner had a deep (comparatively) displacement keel and bilge keels that I don't think would have produced any more of an issue than you'd get with an ordinary narrowboat --
I never had her in a canal, although I had her in plenty of narrow ditches through the mudflats (where admittedly I didn't generally want to go ashore) . But if it's likely to be a problem, do what narrowboaters do and carry a gangplank.
(Note -- bilge keels differ greatly from twin keels, which would certainly be a problem in this situation and which I wouldn't recommend for gunkholing in any case.)
You clearly liked your Eventide, Tranona?
Mike
I never had her in a canal, although I had her in plenty of narrow ditches through the mudflats (where admittedly I didn't generally want to go ashore) . But if it's likely to be a problem, do what narrowboaters do and carry a gangplank.
(Note -- bilge keels differ greatly from twin keels, which would certainly be a problem in this situation and which I wouldn't recommend for gunkholing in any case.)
You clearly liked your Eventide, Tranona?
Mike
ianc1200
Well-Known Member
I had an Anderson 22 (pig to steer with keel raised though, otherwise brilliant) but wanted inboard/raising keel/mast in tabernacle to allow access through wide canals & rivers, and decided on a Mk 1 Cornish Crabber. Another consideration is length of mast as you don't want too much poking out front and back. Also how often are you dropping/raising the mast - this could determine choice of boat and rig. At Bradwell there was a Centaur with it's mast in a tabernacle and the very elderly owner and his oldish son could raise/lower the mast OK, made me wonder whether a Centaur could be a good choice for such cruising.
Seajet
...
I'm surprised by your comments Iain,
The A22 keel ballast bulb stays 9" below the hull, she steers fine with the keel up; with the rudder half up too, as it raises vertically on a full transom pintle; maybe you had the rudder too far up ?
Even so it would be better than a dinghy type rudder with a pivting plate, which would feel awful and suffer high loads if used when raised.
You can get A22's with an inboard should you want that.
The mast is in a pivoted step as standard.
It's also a proper seaboat, unlike a Crabber...
The A22 keel ballast bulb stays 9" below the hull, she steers fine with the keel up; with the rudder half up too, as it raises vertically on a full transom pintle; maybe you had the rudder too far up ?
Even so it would be better than a dinghy type rudder with a pivting plate, which would feel awful and suffer high loads if used when raised.
You can get A22's with an inboard should you want that.
The mast is in a pivoted step as standard.
It's also a proper seaboat, unlike a Crabber...
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Laurie
Well-Known Member
A good idea that didn't quite work. Some clever design ideas.....Very few made.....
Seajet
...
The Anderson 26 was designed by Oliver Lee, but he was given a spec of details to include; partly from the results of a survey among A22 owners, partly based on the findings of the findings of the 1979 Fastnet Report.
Hence she is relatively narrow beam with a good ballast ratio and ballast stub keel with a deep lift keel working through it, has short bulwarks rather than toerails etc.
The ' clever ideas which didn't quite work ' Laurie refers to is presumably the integral grounding legs, housed in sealed tubes and operated manually from on deck, they had a small foot which fairs in with the hull.
I always thought this risked hull damage if something went wrong, and I understand no-one uses them.
The boat is also ' unsinkable ' with foam buoyancy and the keel is electrically raised with manual backup.
She's deceptively fast with a powerful 7/8ths rig, I know at least one has been used for regular trips to the Azores.
Only about 16 were built before Anderson Rigden & Perkins lost the contract to supply MOD launches which was their bread and butter, so they closed about 1982.
A few more were made by nearby Conyer marine.
There are some details on the website in my signature, a friend of mine is restoring one which was a real ' barn find '.
Hence she is relatively narrow beam with a good ballast ratio and ballast stub keel with a deep lift keel working through it, has short bulwarks rather than toerails etc.
The ' clever ideas which didn't quite work ' Laurie refers to is presumably the integral grounding legs, housed in sealed tubes and operated manually from on deck, they had a small foot which fairs in with the hull.
I always thought this risked hull damage if something went wrong, and I understand no-one uses them.
The boat is also ' unsinkable ' with foam buoyancy and the keel is electrically raised with manual backup.
She's deceptively fast with a powerful 7/8ths rig, I know at least one has been used for regular trips to the Azores.
Only about 16 were built before Anderson Rigden & Perkins lost the contract to supply MOD launches which was their bread and butter, so they closed about 1982.
A few more were made by nearby Conyer marine.
There are some details on the website in my signature, a friend of mine is restoring one which was a real ' barn find '.
ianc1200
Well-Known Member
Andy, my "steers like a pig" comes from one incident, & all my fault. Managed to creep up to the marina at very low water, but stuck in the entrance. No problem, lifted the keel and in I went. It was a Saturday evening, and there's a restaurant with an open terrace looking down the entrance, and was filled with onlookers. Came up to my berth and did the perfect turn in as I had done many times previously, only to crab over sideways and hit my neighbour with a audible crashing noise, much embarrassment on my part. Only later realised why she hadn't steered in, the lateral control had been removed by lifting the keel.
No doubt at all you are correct, if the OP poster wants a serious sea going boat which he can adapt to using rivers & canals the A22 is a serious contender, & I've seen photo's of A22's with inboards, tabernacles, & so on. Crabbers are more suited to calm waters and can easily be used on canals and rivers, & this is why the Mk1 Crabber is so popular in Holland, & with early retirement beckoning we hope to return Storm back there soonish. For us, wife, myself & 2 dogs, one medium sized the other tiny, internal space was a factor. Until my wife decided she wanted to come sailing the A22 was a perfect size for one person, but it only took a couple of weekends with wife & one dog at the time to realise we need something bigger.
No doubt at all you are correct, if the OP poster wants a serious sea going boat which he can adapt to using rivers & canals the A22 is a serious contender, & I've seen photo's of A22's with inboards, tabernacles, & so on. Crabbers are more suited to calm waters and can easily be used on canals and rivers, & this is why the Mk1 Crabber is so popular in Holland, & with early retirement beckoning we hope to return Storm back there soonish. For us, wife, myself & 2 dogs, one medium sized the other tiny, internal space was a factor. Until my wife decided she wanted to come sailing the A22 was a perfect size for one person, but it only took a couple of weekends with wife & one dog at the time to realise we need something bigger.
ianc1200
Well-Known Member
Re the A26, one was for sale at Canvey a couple of seasons ago; the owner used to post a lot here & I went with him for a trip Bradwell/Havengore/Queenborough/Canvey, the boat was almost like new, beautiful inside, new Nanni diesel etc. Looked at the legs when I saw her out of the water, had a feeling everything on this boat worked perfectly. However Dave the owner rang to say he was selling because (again, see post above) his wife was now coming sailing & wanted a bigger boat. For me, after being used to the A22, the A26 seemed huge inside.
Salty John
Well-Known Member
jon711
Well-Known Member
Surprised no one has yet suggested a Pegasus 700 with C/B. With board up shallow draft, and a neat mast lowering and tabernacle arrangment on the mast/foredeck.....
Jon
Jon
Laurie
Well-Known Member
.....or 800... and both available with a variety of rigs.......or jag 25.........? Hunter Minstrel or Liberty?