Setting up or removing lazyjacks

[JumbleDuck]

My boat (26') came with lazyjacks. I hate them. Something - normally the top batten - fouls every time I hoist sail and something - normally the bottom batten - fouls every time I drop sail. I'm very tempted to ditch the bloody things altogether and go for a simple sail cover and tyers ... but perhaps I could set up the lazyjacks better, so advice would be very useful.

At the moment the system is as I got it. There are three attachment points on the sail cover, close to 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 along the boom. One line does the front point on the boom and another does the back two. The bifurcation points are roughly at the 1/3 and 2/3 heights between boom and cross trees, where the turning points for the lazy jacks are. It's all in 5mm braided and there are no blocks, just loops done with bowlines.

Does the panel think it's (a) worth fiddling with this system or shall I (b) put up with it or (c) dump it? I generally sail singlehanded.

 

[RobinBirch]

(a)

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Try mounting the turning blocks further out on the spreaders.

 

[sailorman]

Try mounting the turning blocks further out on the spreaders.

I got shot down over that suggestion a few weeks ago. . A 26 footer shouldn't need lazy jacks imho.

 

[macd]

One handy mod is to have the lazy lines a fair bit longer than needed. Then you can quickly slacken the whole lot and pull it into the mast to ensure there's no snagging when you raise the main. I'd do this routinely at night when seeing what's going aloft on is that much harder. I also preferred the lines going down the shrouds and made off on Barton shroud cleats: there was quite enough clutter at the mast already.

Lazyjacks aren't perfect (is any mainsail system?), but they work fine with a bit of tuning. Certainly they're worthwhile if single-handing...and extra pair of hands, if sometimes a bit butter-fingered.

 

[JumbleDuck]

(a)

Any suggestions of how? All I can do easily is move the bifurcation points by adjusting line lengths, and some established wisdom on this would be a great help.

Try mounting the turning blocks further out on the spreaders.

They are actually on the mast, just below the spreaders. I'd be reluctant to add significant vertical loads along the spreaders, but I'll bear that in mind, thanks.

One handy mod is to have the lazy lines a fair bit longer than needed. Then you can quickly slacken the whole lot and pull it into the mast to ensure there's no snagging when you raise the main. ...

Lazyjacks aren't perfect (is any mainsail system?), but they work fine with a bit of tuning. Certainly they're worthwhile if single-handing...and extra pair of hands, if sometimes a bit butter-fingered.

They are already long, as you say. If I slacken them off, though, the mainsail starts falling off the boom where it isn't help up by the mast slides. I'd like to be able to use a boom tent, so this is a pain.

Ah well, looks like some experiments next time I have a calm day on board. Any further guidance would be most welcome, though.

 

[oldbilbo]

I've retro-fitted lazyjacks to more than a dozen boats over the years. Most were arranged similar to yours, but with some modifications. I cannot guarantee that any of these ideas will find favour, but the 'mods' are all cheap enough to try.

First, I'd replace the 'loops done with bowlines' with ~1" stainless rings. That will get rid of quite a lot of irritating friction.

Next, I'd have a pair of inverted V-loops on each side of the boom, attached to the 'three attachments points on the sail cover' A-B, B-C. These would be not more than about 0.70 metre 'tall' when extended, and be all the same size. To each pair of V-loops ( port and starboard ) I'd secure an upper V-loop which would extend up to about 2/3 spreader height. To each of those upper V-loops I'd attach my primary single line ( P and S ) which would continue up to the turning points at the spreaders..... and then down the mast to a cleat, each side.

I've found no need to have blocks at the spreaders, nor any dedicated fasteners into the mastwall. Instead, I used a pair of ~12" lengths of 1" tape with Velcro wound around the spreader-root brackets, with another small stainless ring hanging from each. That's certainly strong enough to hold a hefty and disbelieving Royal Marine sergeant dropping his full weight onto 'em - without movement - and stay serviceable for close on 10 years on a Rival 34.

I usually managed to effect mainsail hoist and drop without losing my rag at entanglements, but not everyone found this so. One simple and cheap addition was to use shortish lengths of bungee cord with plastic - not wire - hooks on the ends ( cherish your eyesight! ) which - hooked into the 2 s/s rings each side when needed - can pull the lazyjack cords out of the way when raising and handing the mainsail. These can do double duty to 'frap' your halyards away from the mast at night - for which your guests and neighbours will thank you.

Perhaps some of these ideas will prove worth a try....

 

[onesea]

I got shot down over that suggestion a few weeks ago. . A 26 footer shouldn't need lazy jacks imho.

+1

Perhaps some of these ideas will prove worth a try....

I might not of been so keen to ditch the ones I tried fitting on my 35 footer...

But then maybe not now enjoy the challenge of stowing 35m2 of sail, I do not always get it right but its a challenge. You know the day I do it good, I arrive in port with the boom cover off

 

[webcraft]

A 26 footer shouldn't need lazy jacks imho.

The most dangerous operation on our (non-lazyjack-equipped) 27-footer is going on the coachroof to flake/tie up the main when it is necessary to drop it in big seas. This is much more difficult than it is on a bigger boat. Lazyjacks would make the whole procedure a lot less fraught.

Difficulty raising the main because of battens catching etc can often be reduced by judicial playing of the mainsheet.

I have sailed plenty of boats with lazyjacks and always found them a joy to use. People who dislike lazyjacks usually either have them set up wrong or don't know how to use them.

- W

 

[JumbleDuck]

The most dangerous operation on our (non-lazyjack-equipped) 27-footer is going on the coachroof to flake/tie up the main when it is necessary to drop it in big seas.

On the other hand I had an interesting amount of fun on the coachroof trying to get the damn sail up in rather big seas off Iona a couple of weeks ago. I had hoist six times (from memory) to get it to go up without jamming one batten or another. That was what made me determined to improve or remove the system ...

Difficulty raising the main because of battens catching etc can often be reduced by judicial playing of the mainsheet.

Indeed, but as I am normally on my own it involves rather a lot of to-ing and fro-ing. I suspect that the size and geometry of my boat and sail are spang in the middle of the grey zone between "not worth it" and "godsend". I do appreciate how easy they makes stowing the sail.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've retro-fitted lazyjacks to more than a dozen boats over the years. Most were arranged similar to yours, but with some modifications. I cannot guarantee that any of these ideas will find favour, but the 'mods' are all cheap enough to try.

Many thanks. That's very helpful. I'm particularly interested in the idea of putting in two inverted V's at the bottom. Basically I think I need to reduce the spacing between the lazyjack lines so that there is less opportunity for battens to pivot round one and then wedge under the next one further back.

I saw an interesting variation on a Vega which had one tall inverted V between the back two (of three) attachment points on the boom, then a line from the top of that V, up to spreader height and then down to the front point on the boom. Good guidance all the way up, but it looked a bit fiddly to adjust, as it depended on untying and retying a knot on each side.

Luckily experiments only cost a bit of line, and I bought a 30m offcut recently ...

 

[TQA]

Slacken off and bungee forward before hoisting. I some times only do the leeward side if I know I will be on one tack for the passage. I do not leave them rubbing on the sail under passage.

Tighten them up before dropping the main.

They make single handing a lot easier especially if it is windy.

 

[RobinBirch]

Apologies for the brevity of my reply but my 3 year old grand daughter demanded playtime....

Anyhow, most points have been covered by others.

I set up lazyjacks on my 28 foot CC Hillyard with 5mm rope, stainless rings and cheek blocks just above the spreaders. Absolute godsend when single handing. But every now and again depending on wind and sea state I expect to the main to snag when raising/lowering the sail. When I raise/lower the sail (at the mast) I always keep an eye on the battens and pick the moment to haul/lower and will pause if necessary as the boat/sail/lines roll and avoid the 'snag' Don't expect 100% success and you may find your frustration diminished.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I thought lazyjacks were to stop you falling off when you're sleeping on the boom!
http://www.maxingout.com/images/Captains Log/janunplan-jan.jpg

 

[DaveS]

Apologies for the brevity of my reply but my 3 year old grand daughter demanded playtime....

Anyhow, most points have been covered by others.

I set up lazyjacks on my 28 foot CC Hillyard with 5mm rope, stainless rings and cheek blocks just above the spreaders. Absolute godsend when single handing. But every now and again depending on wind and sea state I expect to the main to snag when raising/lowering the sail. When I raise/lower the sail (at the mast) I always keep an eye on the battens and pick the moment to haul/lower and will pause if necessary as the boat/sail/lines roll and avoid the 'snag' Don't expect 100% success and you may find your frustration diminished.

+1

I would also agree with Rigger Mortice that attaching the turning blocks to the spreaders makes life easier since that gives a wider slot between potential snagging points. As another single hander I find lazy jacks a significant help. I have thought about systems involving bungy and a line back to the cockpit to clear them for hoisting, but they haven't progress beyond back of an envelope sketches.

 

[winsbury]

On our similar size set up the key thing is to make sure the main is head to wind ( let out the boom if lying head to wind isnt possible ) and the lazy jacks fully loosened before hoisting - if a batten gets caught its usually then a simple tug on the leech to get it to flip out before continuing the hoist. For dropping make sure the sail is depowered the same way and the lazy jacks are fully tightened before letting off the halyard slowly to ensure an even drop.