Setting up a boating business

[petem]

So you could sell:
Names as Jimmy says
Maretron- this is awesome but there is no knowledgeable UK supplier. I've bought 20k and would buy more if I could get tech info
Lumishore lights
Custom ribs by novurania nautica Aquascan. They will make proper custom and Williams have proved the market but there is no custom supplier for outboard rib tender buyers. Williams just won't do outboards. MyAG and I bought ours directly in Florida sheesh and a UK dealer would have been great
Unbreakable glasses that are glass not plastic
Custom carling switches with custom engraved legends or pictures and Audi BMW esque red backlighting. Available but hard to find.
Those little bottles of premium brand cosmetics like in swanky hotel, to put in cabins. I buy tiny purple Elemis but have to buy 1000 bottles of each of shampoo, shower gel, conditioner, body lotion etc and that's a bit much tbh

As I said yesterday some great ides. My initial assessment would be:

Names - A definite maybe. Have tossed the first iron in the fire today.

Mareton - I'm surprised Piers isn't already all over this, as its right up their street isn't it (IIRC they were already looking at Glass cockpits)?

Lumishore - Great product, I always assumed that the guys were doing well selling direct.

Custom Ribs - Gut feel is too ambitious and too difficult living inland (if you need to do demos). Is it possible to be just an importer and effectively do the work that you and MYAG had to do yourselves (i.e. organize the shipping, duty, etc)? This could be doable.

Unbreakable glasses - Nice idea but difficult to see how you might turn this into a boaty business.

Custom Carling switches - Too niche I fear

Miniatures - I said boaty business not soapy business FFS! Anyhow, I can see your problem. Presumably you get through more shampoos and body washes than body lotion too? Dunno how set you are on Elemis but Moulton Brown or Bliss ('W' Hotels) might do smaller quantities of miniatures - just a thought.

 

[Dill et Bound]

The best way to make money is to become a Consutant.
I am sorry boys, the ideas that you have give for petem to start a small business. just won t work.
You would need to have a good product.
A good supply network.
Stock.
Somewhere to work from.
It would need to be sustainable.
You need to have customers who are easily pleased. Unlike most motorboat owners.
All these factors put together would lead to a business that would be no fun.
Probably lead eventually to death, and poverty forever for your nearest and dearest.

An invoice for £250 for this brilliant advice will be shortly PM d to you.
Please pay within 10 days.
Make cheques payable to Consultancy Advice Swiss Holdings, or C A S H. to my Po Box Number.
Thank you for your custom.
And best wishes
Kind Regards etc etc blah blah

 

[petem]

coincidentally Petem see this:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?427773-Using-a-Strut-Pro

That could have legs, but I wonder how many you could sell? There might only be a total UK market of a few hundred units. As was suggested on the thread, another business model would be to buy half a dozen units and rent them out. Looks like sturdy bit of kit with spares available. What would people be willing to pay, £75 for a weeks rental? Would pay for itself pretty quickly. Advert in PBO?

 

[petem]

Go for a Purple Burgee online store, they seem really popular...

I'd have said blue not purple!

 

[petem]

Yup thats a good point. I bought a tender at Dusseldorf made by an Italian manufacturer Surmarine http://www.surmarine.it. The quality, attention to detail and price was excellent but they are also willing to customise their products as well. They have a dealer in the UK but judging by his website they don't push the products very hard

Looks like they re-brand them Piranha? What makes think they don't push them (just curious)?

Another area that Pete could look at is quality helm seats. I recently searched for new helm seats for my boat and the range and quality of seats offered in the UK by the likes of Outhill and Toomer & Hayter is very poor. There are several US manufacturers of quality helm seats like Stidd, Lebroc, Bentleys who as far as I'm aware are not represented in the UK

The upgrade market is too niche I reckon.

 

[petem]

The best way to make money is to become a Consutant.

Like an IT Consultant perhaps? Hmmm.

 

[vas]

interesting ideas and points made.

IF you are still considering this Pete, may I suggest you look at electronics/data management/displays/etc produced down under and mainly NZ?
Quite a few v.successful and v.unavailable brands around! (from pyrometers, wideband lambdas, anchor chain counters, engine datamanagement, etc.
IF you do consider it, i'd open the target to both cars and boats

cheers

V.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

That could have legs, but I wonder how many you could sell? There might only be a total UK market of a few hundred units. As was suggested on the thread, another business model would be to buy half a dozen units and rent them out. Looks like sturdy bit of kit with spares available. What would people be willing to pay, £75 for a weeks rental? Would pay for itself pretty quickly. Advert in PBO?

There's a parallel with the flushsok invented and marketed by (occasional) forumite tribblehunter - see http://www.flushsok.co.uk/. You might want to compare notes with him to see how successful his sales and rentals of a similarly niche product have been.

 

[jfm]

Miniatures - I said boaty business not soapy business FFS! Anyhow, I can see your problem. Presumably you get through more shampoos and body washes than body lotion too? Dunno how set you are on Elemis but Moulton Brown or Bliss ('W' Hotels) might do smaller quantities of miniatures - just a thought.

Tee hee, yes that's right. So I buy 2xboxes of 1000 shower gel and 1x1000 of body lotion to cope with different consumption rates. I can't move for my inventory levels!

Anyway there is a boats connection and reason I choose Elemis, apart from its nice spa-ish image. Elemis is originally a brand owned by Steiner, the cruise ship spa business which belonged to the Steiner family in London. Nicholas Steiner kindly hired me to help them IPo the business way back in about 1993 when I was a kid. We IPOed on Nasdaq and he made a proper fortune. Since then the Elemis brand had grown and is more famous than Steiner as a brand. Anyway Nicholas Steiner was a mad keen boater. He had a phantom 40 in South of France and was just taking delivery of a mark 1 squad 65 at Peters in chichester when I met him. Back then early 1990s squad 65 was one heck of a boat. Still is, but I mean relatively. He took it to Bahamas. Anyway, nice guy, fairline owner, nice product, so I buy Elemis

Talking of W, I was at the new W in Verbier couple of weeks ago. Any skiers, you much included of course Pete, check it out- see image gallery on website. Uber cool New York hotel right there in Verbier

 

[EugeneR]

I would look at SMS and temperature controlled power sockets.

Cost ex China around £25, retail around £110 - too high for most. The identical product is sold under brands such as lindy, tekview, energenie etc.

Many boaters heat their boats during winter i.e. large section of boating market. This would save in electricity but also alert them via SMS if a critical power outage occurs. So, if priced sensibly, for the buyer it pays back quickly with added peace of mind.

Also, gives a way of "talking" to the boat if you are so inclined ?

 

[Piers]

Mareton - I'm surprised Piers isn't already all over this, as its right up their street isn't it (IIRC they were already looking at Glass cockpits)?

Hi Pete. Just seen this post - been servicing Play d'eau's engines for the last three days....

As you say, been there, done it, and learned much from the experience. So here's the story:

Started by going to METS which, as you know, is an exhibition for parts with which to build boats (so no boats). I saw some gorgeous horns which looked terrific. Thought 'Play d'eau' would look great with a set. Researched horns and found none as good looking as Kahlenberg and that very few non-Kahlenberg horns met 'COLREGs' requirements (anything over 12m needs an approved horn). The best bit was that no-one was representing Kahlenberg in Europe. Flew to the USA to meet Messrs Kahlenberg and was offered the exclusive European distribution for their complete and extensive range (commercial and leisure).

Was it part time? No way. Any enquiry was gold dust and needed immediate attention. The old adage applied - you don't own the business, the business owns you.

Pitfalls? If importing, duties and VAT; UK pricing being judged against European / USA etc for where to buy; stock (considerable) for parts and the fact that often a client wants it 'now'; part of the market falling away (leisure boat builders fitting non-approved horns in the economy downturn just because they were cheaper (!) even though insurance claims may be compromised).

But, given Toby (my son) is persistent, he's developed the commercial market and the superyacht market has remained buoyant. The leisure market has always been small in comparison.

So, we've always specialising in only a few niche products, becoming expert in them and with levels of exclusivity. So much so that Toby now frequently travels Europe and to where vessels may be being built or docked (including Africa!) to consult and advise on installations of horns, thermal cameras, and approved display screens which form the three main niche products we now serve. He's built a name for himself.

Helpful?

 

[Neil_Y]

Piers sums it up well.
Commercial boats are a good place to start as they will not buy rubbish but if you have a good product and can supply it quickly you can build a reputation. Often speed of supply is critical, I've had superyachts docking on a Friday in Italy wanting new shaft bearings urgently as they are on charter in 7 days, we get bearings made over the weekend in Perth and ship Monday for Tuesday delivery. If you are new and small that's how you can compete with the established business'. I've also established products after a lot of work only for the manufacturer to decide they want to go through a different route to market. I've seen this happen many times in the marine sector. Be very careful with boat builders and giving credit, I've suffered from Christensens and Dickies failures.

And good luck, having come from telecoms marine is challenging but can be fun.

You need to visit METS, and think about the shows you will do in UK. Seaworks is good if you have a product for workboats, Ocean Business was also interesting this year.

 

[Simon391088]

Hi Pete,

My company is a well known e-commerce provider which provides e-commerce websites and shopping carts to thousands of merchants.

The answer to your original question is really simple...
Find a product which is already selling really well and then market it better than most of the competition.

Sales and marketing is where almost every merchant fails. Most spend ages producing a website and then fail to pick up the phone and call every magazine, newspaper, tv show, radio station with a story on 'how starting an online shop gave me a new lease of life' (or similar - you make it up) - every publication/media outlet is under huge pressure to find content each day/month and so all you need to do is to persist with enough and you will eventually end up on their table at the right time (this is editorial, not advertising).
In addition, you would use telesales, pr, internet ads, affiliate systems, traditional advertising, referral strategies, joint ventures, content marketing etc. The more of these in place at the same time, clearly the better the results. Amazingly only a tiny percentage of merchants do more than one of these! (Which is why most businesses fail and why some people are extraordinarily successful in the same market as lots of others).

When most merchants fail to sell a lot they then blame it on the website and in extreme cases pay more to have it redesigned etc. - all a waste of time as it is usually sales and marketing which fail. Look how successful Google are on such a simple site layout.

Those merchants who use our systems and are making huge amounts of money all have one thing in common - they spend every day working out how they are going to promote their store rather than working on the mechanics of the actual business (picking and packing etc.).

Having said all that you said you are not good at sales and marketing - this means that you either have to get good at it, or pay someone else to do it - however paying someone else isn't a great idea unless they have a big stake in the company - you are the best person for this job.

And finally - if it were me, I wouldn't start a business with such a small target audience, i'd sell loom bands or something which is already huge with a massive potential for sales. Why make your life difficult.
Save boating for the results of your hard work!

Many Thanks
Simon

 

[Ripster]

Hi Pete,

My company is a well known e-commerce provider which provides e-commerce websites and shopping carts to thousands of merchants.

The answer to your original question is really simple...
Find a product which is already selling really well and then market it better than most of the competition.

Sales and marketing is where almost every merchant fails. Most spend ages producing a website and then fail to pick up the phone and call every magazine, newspaper, tv show, radio station with a story on 'how starting an online shop gave me a new lease of life' (or similar - you make it up) - every publication/media outlet is under huge pressure to find content each day/month and so all you need to do is to persist with enough and you will eventually end up on their table at the right time (this is editorial, not advertising).
In addition, you would use telesales, pr, internet ads, affiliate systems, traditional advertising, referral strategies, joint ventures, content marketing etc. The more of these in place at the same time, clearly the better the results. Amazingly only a tiny percentage of merchants do more than one of these! (Which is why most businesses fail and why some people are extraordinarily successful in the same market as lots of others).

When most merchants fail to sell a lot they then blame it on the website and in extreme cases pay more to have it redesigned etc. - all a waste of time as it is usually sales and marketing which fail. Look how successful Google are on such a simple site layout.

Those merchants who use our systems and are making huge amounts of money all have one thing in common - they spend every day working out how they are going to promote their store rather than working on the mechanics of the actual business (picking and packing etc.).

Having said all that you said you are not good at sales and marketing - this means that you either have to get good at it, or pay someone else to do it - however paying someone else isn't a great idea unless they have a big stake in the company - you are the best person for this job.

And finally - if it were me, I wouldn't start a business with such a small target audience, i'd sell loom bands or something which is already huge with a massive potential for sales. Why make your life difficult.
Save boating for the results of your hard work!

Many Thanks
Simon

Wise words.

Having run web based distribution businesses for over 10 years now (not Marine) I would add that wide product offer (in yr chosen area) increases sales and protects the business. Fast service - customers want it now. Keen pricing gets orders, always will. The web allows punter to be well informed. Never forget bad news out-travels good by about 10 to 1. Keep searching all the time for the next development and latest products. But yes...absolutely - its marketing and promotion that will win - in all its forms.

 

[Dill et Bound]

The thing is Pete.
Piers,Neil, and Simon. have all given you good advice in their area of expertise.
The only failing on their parts as far as I am concerned is that they gave the advice for free.
Become a Consultant...:encouragement:

 

[petem]

Tee hee, yes that's right. So I buy 2xboxes of 1000 shower gel and 1x1000 of body lotion to cope with different consumption rates. I can't move for my inventory levels!

Anyway there is a boats connection and reason I choose Elemis, apart from its nice spa-ish image. Elemis is originally a brand owned by Steiner, the cruise ship spa business which belonged to the Steiner family in London. Nicholas Steiner kindly hired me to help them IPo the business way back in about 1993 when I was a kid. We IPOed on Nasdaq and he made a proper fortune. Since then the Elemis brand had grown and is more famous than Steiner as a brand. Anyway Nicholas Steiner was a mad keen boater. He had a phantom 40 in South of France and was just taking delivery of a mark 1 squad 65 at Peters in chichester when I met him. Back then early 1990s squad 65 was one heck of a boat. Still is, but I mean relatively. He took it to Bahamas. Anyway, nice guy, fairline owner, nice product, so I buy Elemis

Talking of W, I was at the new W in Verbier couple of weeks ago. Any skiers, you much included of course Pete, check it out- see image gallery on website. Uber cool New York hotel right there in Verbier

Nice story JFM you sentimental sod!

Anyway, now I know why you bought a house in France, somewhere to keep your stock of miniatures, sewing machine and Aladdin's cave of other boating ephemera!

On the Elemis front, what really impresses me about them is that they've managed to get on all the ships owned by the big three super cruise companies (Carnival, Royal Caribbean and NCL). Many other (non-spa) franchises seems to be wedded to a single brand. In fact Elemis spas are pretty much mandatory on all new ships. And what a great business, charge a license for the name then sell loads of product at a huge mark-up.

Regarding W, I'd heard that there was a Verbier one but its probably a little out of my price range and to be honest the apres ski is probably a little too tame for me. We did have a great pre cruise stay at the Barcelona W a couple of years ago funded Starwood Points (one of the benefits of my 32 trips to India)! Sadly I think I'm down to my last 30,000 points now.

Pete

 

[petem]

Hi Pete. Just seen this post - been servicing Play d'eau's engines for the last three days....

As you say, been there, done it, and learned much from the experience. So here's the story:

Started by going to METS which, as you know, is an exhibition for parts with which to build boats (so no boats). I saw some gorgeous horns which looked terrific. Thought 'Play d'eau' would look great with a set. Researched horns and found none as good looking as Kahlenberg and that very few non-Kahlenberg horns met 'COLREGs' requirements (anything over 12m needs an approved horn). The best bit was that no-one was representing Kahlenberg in Europe. Flew to the USA to meet Messrs Kahlenberg and was offered the exclusive European distribution for their complete and extensive range (commercial and leisure).

Was it part time? No way. Any enquiry was gold dust and needed immediate attention. The old adage applied - you don't own the business, the business owns you.

Pitfalls? If importing, duties and VAT; UK pricing being judged against European / USA etc for where to buy; stock (considerable) for parts and the fact that often a client wants it 'now'; part of the market falling away (leisure boat builders fitting non-approved horns in the economy downturn just because they were cheaper (!) even though insurance claims may be compromised).

But, given Toby (my son) is persistent, he's developed the commercial market and the superyacht market has remained buoyant. The leisure market has always been small in comparison.

So, we've always specialising in only a few niche products, becoming expert in them and with levels of exclusivity. So much so that Toby now frequently travels Europe and to where vessels may be being built or docked (including Africa!) to consult and advise on installations of horns, thermal cameras, and approved display screens which form the three main niche products we now serve. He's built a name for himself.

Helpful?

Thanks Piers, very helpful. Clearly you and Toby have a great business there.

 

[petem]

Hi Pete,

My company is a well known e-commerce provider which provides e-commerce websites and shopping carts to thousands of merchants.

The answer to your original question is really simple...
Find a product which is already selling really well and then market it better than most of the competition.

Sales and marketing is where almost every merchant fails. Most spend ages producing a website and then fail to pick up the phone and call every magazine, newspaper, tv show, radio station with a story on 'how starting an online shop gave me a new lease of life' (or similar - you make it up) - every publication/media outlet is under huge pressure to find content each day/month and so all you need to do is to persist with enough and you will eventually end up on their table at the right time (this is editorial, not advertising).
In addition, you would use telesales, pr, internet ads, affiliate systems, traditional advertising, referral strategies, joint ventures, content marketing etc. The more of these in place at the same time, clearly the better the results. Amazingly only a tiny percentage of merchants do more than one of these! (Which is why most businesses fail and why some people are extraordinarily successful in the same market as lots of others).

When most merchants fail to sell a lot they then blame it on the website and in extreme cases pay more to have it redesigned etc. - all a waste of time as it is usually sales and marketing which fail. Look how successful Google are on such a simple site layout.

Those merchants who use our systems and are making huge amounts of money all have one thing in common - they spend every day working out how they are going to promote their store rather than working on the mechanics of the actual business (picking and packing etc.).

Having said all that you said you are not good at sales and marketing - this means that you either have to get good at it, or pay someone else to do it - however paying someone else isn't a great idea unless they have a big stake in the company - you are the best person for this job.

And finally - if it were me, I wouldn't start a business with such a small target audience, i'd sell loom bands or something which is already huge with a massive potential for sales. Why make your life difficult.
Save boating for the results of your hard work!

Many Thanks
Simon

Thanks, interesting and good advice. I have some experience of eCommerce as I create (from scratch) a cart application for a friend who wanted to sell a single product (couch rolls for Osteopaths). We did really well on the SEO/SERPS and PPC and he made a nice profit when he sold the business to a competitor after a couple of years. I also made a few quid from Amazon selling their own stuff via PPC (basically by using Adwords to send visitors direct to Amazon and using my Associate Id to get the commission). A great wheeze whilst it lasted but they eventually cottoned on and banned it!

 

[jfm]

Nice story JFM you sentimental sod!

Anyway, now I know why you bought a house in France, somewhere to keep your stock of miniatures, sewing machine and Aladdin's cave of other boating ephemera!

On the Elemis front...

Tee hee. One day I'll have to post pics of my boat parts store room...! I'm gonna install bar coding and inventory control soon

Yup, they are big in cruise ships. That was their core business originally, and then in addition the Elemis brand grew into the big brand it is now. BTW, Bliss is an Elemis sister brand, I mean owned by Steiner Leisure group.

Have you decided yet? On the new business venture?

 

[petem]

Tee hee. One day I'll have to post pics of my boat parts store room...! I'm gonna install bar coding and inventory control soon

Yup, they are big in cruise ships. That was their core business originally, and then in addition the Elemis brand grew into the big brand it is now. BTW, Bliss is an Elemis sister brand, I mean owned by Steiner Leisure group.

That thought had occurred to me because they had a Bliss shop on NCL EPIC. I couldn't see any mention of this when I had a quick look at the Bliss web site. Anyhow, that's enough girly stuff for now.

Have you decided yet? On the new business venture?

No not yet .