Kukri
Well-Known Member
Just to break the monotony, the new to me boat came with a well used day glow pink storm staysail to go with her well used day glow pink trysail. That boat has done more miles than I ever will.
Setting the storm jib
- Thread starter geem
- Start date
Praxinoscope
Well-Known Member
Once, we hove to with trisail and storm jib when hit by 55-60knt winds in the Celtic Sea.
The boat (Invicta 26) behaved perfectly, the crew and skipper perhaps not quite so well.
The boat (Invicta 26) behaved perfectly, the crew and skipper perhaps not quite so well.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
But when? Was this before the days of reasonably reliable medium term forecasts?
A key theme here seems to be for coastal and short sea passages people tend to try to avoid really severe weather, and hence avoid storm jib usage. (Clearly different if heading East across Atlantic,)
Beelzebub
Well-Known Member
Once between Brest and La Coruna.
9 knots under bare poles, 17 knots with the storm jib up. (It was a trimaran)
9 knots under bare poles, 17 knots with the storm jib up. (It was a trimaran)
Kukri
Well-Known Member
When did these forecasts arrive? And are they proof against human foolishness?
I have been guilty of such - three days swinging round a mooring on the Orwell with no forecast below a 7 and as soon as I heard the word "6" I told the crew "Right - we're off to Terschelling!" Needless to say the next forecast but one was "9" but it was a bit late by then and a chastened and throughly damp skipper, boat and crew crawled into Ijmuiden having, indeed, deployed the storm jib.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
When we stopped listening to VHF forecasts with just 48 hours view and started using 7 day forecasts over the inter web instead
And yes they generally are pretty reliable (if monitor how stable the forecasts are over a period), and no they can’t prevent over optimistic wishful thinking.
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
Twice on a Bav 390.
First time in November Biscay storm with big breaking seas and wind up over 50knts much of the time. Used it on a separate forestay (rigged hanked on with own sheets hoisted out of a bag attached to the deck just behind roller)
It worked then for two nights hove to, main was in stack pack and there was still enough windage to hold her steady nose into the breeze and waves a bit)
Second time coming back towards Azores very confused seas as there had been two storms which meant very steep breaking waves where the two swells met. We used the storm jib on its own to deep reach and give us enough speed and steerage to run infront (trailing warps and kedge anchor chain) sustained 40knt.
First time in November Biscay storm with big breaking seas and wind up over 50knts much of the time. Used it on a separate forestay (rigged hanked on with own sheets hoisted out of a bag attached to the deck just behind roller)
It worked then for two nights hove to, main was in stack pack and there was still enough windage to hold her steady nose into the breeze and waves a bit)
Second time coming back towards Azores very confused seas as there had been two storms which meant very steep breaking waves where the two swells met. We used the storm jib on its own to deep reach and give us enough speed and steerage to run infront (trailing warps and kedge anchor chain) sustained 40knt.
geem
Well-Known Member
I assume you dont have twin furlers with a stay sail set on the inner furler? I think the answers on this post are interesting. Skippers are setting a storm jib in less than storm conditions as the alternative would be a very furled genoa? I also guess the hull shape and weight make a difference. An easily driven light flat bottom boat will surf readily. Small sail area such as a storn jib would give adequate drive with such a hull in 40kts where as we probably wouldnt get enough drive if going up wind.
A few posts mention triple reefed main. Nobody has mentioned in mast furling. In 40+ kts it would be interesting to know how is performs or wether boats have simple dropped all conventional sails and are just setting a storm jib and or trisail.
On our previous boat we had a 4th reef in the main partly because we had a taller mast than standard but we used that 4th reef a suprising amount in windy weather. On the current boat I left the trisail at home. Cant ever imagine using it on this boat.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
I do not contemplate trying to go upwind in forty knots of wind.
However I do pay attention to a point raised by a very well regarded sailmaker, who points out that a roller staysail gets merry hell knocked out of it by the jib clew whenever you tack. Since the inner forestay on a modern cutter is inboard, it doesn't seem too much of a hardship to have the staysail and the storm staysail hanked on, and the stay removeable.
However I do pay attention to a point raised by a very well regarded sailmaker, who points out that a roller staysail gets merry hell knocked out of it by the jib clew whenever you tack. Since the inner forestay on a modern cutter is inboard, it doesn't seem too much of a hardship to have the staysail and the storm staysail hanked on, and the stay removeable.
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geem
Well-Known Member
We have gone upwind in wind in the 30s gusting 40 but not sustained. Since our rig is a solent rig we have two furlers mounted just two feet apart. If you are tacking in light winds then you use the overlapping genoa on the outer furler. Its a pain to get the sail to tack through the gap between furlers occationally and we quite often needs a trip to the bow to encourage the sail to tack! I dont see how this stresses the staysail furler.I do not contemplate trying to go upwind in forty knots of wind.
However I do pay attention to a point raised by a very well regarded sailmaker, who points out that a roller staysail gets merry hell knocked out of it by the jib clew whenever you tack. Since the inner forestay on a modern cutter is inboard, it doesn't seem too much of a hardship to have the staysail and the storm staysail hanked on, and the stay removeable.
Here in the Caribbean where many boats have crossed the Atlantic the twin furlers, one closely behind the other are very commom. Since reaching here is the most common point of sail tacking the larger sail isnt really an issue. If we were tacking up a channel we would likely be on the smaller working jib if we had enough wind anyway.
Praxinoscope
Well-Known Member
We were about 80 miles S/W of Kinsale hoping to get to the Azores 10 years ago, forecast had been no more than F5 when it rapidly changed to F10/11 imminent, so not a lot of choice as to what to do.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Have had to take diversion for summer F10 on three occasions, but all of them were well predicted for up to a week ahead (only the precise force, from F8-11, and centre, varied over the last few days). Whilst have seen extreme gusts in hilly coastal locations, very rare to have a forecast change to F10-11 without appearing as gale, or at least suspiciously very unstable, in the forward outlook over a week.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify - my eminent sailmaker friend’s point was not about the staysail roller gear but about the wear and tear on the roller staysail. It’s no skin off his nose; his loft are happy enough to renew the UV strips, much as TW Ratsey called the Wykeham Martin gear “the sailmaker’s friend”.
On the balance of inconvenience, I prefer to drop the inner forestay in lighter conditions and make a trip to the foredeck to hank on a staysail rather than keep running forward on each tack, but you can argue it either way.
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
No, one furler that had two sails rolled together (for downwind) and the removable inner stay only a few inches behind mounted to the same chain plate as the furler. Deck work in the conditions we used the storm sail was wet and dangerous so we tended to rig it early, and all that was needed to hoist was one trip to the front to release the top of the bag and then hoist from the cockpit.
DJE
Well-Known Member
A couple of times last season in the Solent beating into 30 knots or so I has the No. 3 on the inner forestay and 3 slabs in the main. Frequently over powered in the gust and both times wished I had tried the storm jib and a bit more main - easier to de-power the main with the traveller in the gusts.
On a related point how do you tension your removable inner forestays? I have a highfield lever which is a beast to use and doesn't really get enough tension to properly flatten the No.3. Thinking about one of those Wichard ratchet adjusters but they are serious money.
On a related point how do you tension your removable inner forestays? I have a highfield lever which is a beast to use and doesn't really get enough tension to properly flatten the No.3. Thinking about one of those Wichard ratchet adjusters but they are serious money.
flaming
Well-Known Member
My experience with removable forestays has never been entirely satisfactory from a performance point of view. I think the problem is that even when you get it tight, it's still sharing the load with the normal forestay, so you never quite get the forestay tension that you really need to go upwind in breeze, and even winding on backstay tension only really has an effect if you wound the removable stay up harder than your normal forestay so it's taking most of the load. I think it's different if you're talking about a proper inner forestay and staysail arrangement, as it's a very different attachment point and you're less likely to get issues of trying to get the necessary tension.
Reports I've read of "slutter" rigs often say similar things, and I think the advice is normally to ensure that the forestay with the blade jib on is taking the lions share of the load so you can get good tension, with the outer forestay with the genoa on having less tension - but that matters less as it's primarily a light wind or reaching sail.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
I agree.
(A) If you have an "honest to goodness" Bermuda cutter, with the removable inner forestay running parallel to the outer one, from the upper spreaders to a point 1/3 of the way from the stemhead to the mast, with runners, you don't have a problem - the Highfield lever works well.
(B) Arrangements with an inner forestay running to the masthead and down to a point further aft, in the attempt to avoid runners, "not so much", because inner is sharing the load.
(C) the true "slutter", with the lower forestay from a point well down on the mast to the stemhead works well if there are runners.
(A) If you have an "honest to goodness" Bermuda cutter, with the removable inner forestay running parallel to the outer one, from the upper spreaders to a point 1/3 of the way from the stemhead to the mast, with runners, you don't have a problem - the Highfield lever works well.
(B) Arrangements with an inner forestay running to the masthead and down to a point further aft, in the attempt to avoid runners, "not so much", because inner is sharing the load.
(C) the true "slutter", with the lower forestay from a point well down on the mast to the stemhead works well if there are runners.
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BabaYaga
Well-Known Member
I use a normal rigging screw fitted with 'handles'. On my boat, 12 turns (in not much more than 30 seconds) take up the slack and result in a sufficiently tensioned stay. My inner forestay runs close to main forestay (about 0.4m).
westhinder
Well-Known Member
The Highfield lever on the removable forestay can only be tensioned by slacking off the backstay. Tightening up the backstay again gives enough tension on the forestay. In the circumstances I will be using it, getting every last degree of upwind performance will not be my top priority.
webcraft
Well-Known Member
.
Am thinking of getting a sleeved/hanked storm jib for going over the furled genoa, on the grounds that it would be better than nothing. With dedicated sheets already attached it shouldn't be too big a job to hoist it provided it is done early.
I have been looking at Esails, which is the online branch of Kemps. Total cost for a 5m storm jib plus sleeve is under £400, which seems a reasonable price for having this extra tool in your bag.
Once hoisted, it would seem to offer a pretty good shape/entry for being able to make at least some upwind progress in heavy winds should that become necessary.
Has anyone here ever used any kind of sleeved storm jib in anger, and if so how did it perform?
- W
Am thinking of getting a sleeved/hanked storm jib for going over the furled genoa, on the grounds that it would be better than nothing. With dedicated sheets already attached it shouldn't be too big a job to hoist it provided it is done early.
I have been looking at Esails, which is the online branch of Kemps. Total cost for a 5m storm jib plus sleeve is under £400, which seems a reasonable price for having this extra tool in your bag.
Once hoisted, it would seem to offer a pretty good shape/entry for being able to make at least some upwind progress in heavy winds should that become necessary.
Has anyone here ever used any kind of sleeved storm jib in anger, and if so how did it perform?
- W
