Servicing winches - excessive grease?

Why do you have to unbolt two-speed Harken 32 and 40s from the deck to get at the pawls? Idiotic design. Sidedeck winches easy - I can get to the bolts. But to get at the bolts for the coachroof winch I have to spend about an hour dismantling interior furniture. Putting it back takes two people and about 2 hours. Actually servicing the winch takes 10 minutes, but the job takes over 3 hours.
 
jwilson said:
Why do you have to unbolt two-speed Harken 32 and 40s from the deck to get at the pawls? Idiotic design. Sidedeck winches easy - I can get to the bolts. But to get at the bolts for the coachroof winch I have to spend about an hour dismantling interior furniture. Putting it back takes two people and about 2 hours. Actually servicing the winch takes 10 minutes, but the job takes over 3 hours.
Click to expand...
(Perfectionists, cover your ears or turn away.)

So, according to the book, I'm supposed to service that every year for 15-20 years, or about 140 man-hours at $100/hour = $14,000 in service cost. The hell with that. Yes, that is a basic design failure.

Practical(?) options are to ...
  • Skip it. Common enough, but serious trouble after 10-15 years.
  • Clean and lube what you can get to from the top. You can't replace the lower pawls or springs, but with solvent and a brush, you can get it pretty clean by turning it a few times. Some towels for the mess. Lightly relube. I've had mast winches where this was the only practical way, since the bolts were seized to the mast.
  • On some you can't remove the drum at all. Flood the socket with motor oil and spin. Towels to catch what comes out over the next hour. This needs to be done at least annually, but it's easy. You can tell when there is enough oil by the sound and feel, but figure on a few ounces. 10w-40 TCW is a good choice, since the anti-corrosion properties of marine engine oil are slightly better, but anything, really. Not 0 or 5 weights. Gear lube is too heavy for the pawls. The trick is that this needs to be done more often, since it will run off sooner. But it is super easy. I have two secondaries that are a pain, and I've done them this way for a decade, and the boat was 15 when I got it. Typically once per year, but I've done it twice if sailing a lot.
Other winches I service in the recommended way. But I can tell no difference in how they have held up.
 
jwilson said:
Why do you have to unbolt two-speed Harken 32 and 40s from the deck to get at the pawls? Idiotic design. Sidedeck winches easy - I can get to the bolts. But to get at the bolts for the coachroof winch I have to spend about an hour dismantling interior furniture. Putting it back takes two people and about 2 hours. Actually servicing the winch takes 10 minutes, but the job takes over 3 hours.
Click to expand...
I’ve never had Harken, and now I’m very pleased about it. A job of about one minute with Lewmar, though captive pawl springs would have been nice!
 
johnalison said:
I’ve never had Harken, and now I’m very pleased about it. A job of about one minute with Lewmar, though captive pawl springs would have been nice!
Click to expand...
If they run away that means they are due for replacement! Just as well. I have had a few break from wear--they really should be replaced at least every few years. Same with the pawl. Better to replace the pawl before it wears, than have a worn pawl cause wear on the seat, which can't be replaced.

I think the most common cause of final winch death is worn pawl seats. They jam and then aren't worth the parts to fix.
 
thinwater said:
(Perfectionists, cover your ears or turn away.)

So, according to the book, I'm supposed to service that every year for 15-20 years, or about 140 man-hours at $100/hour = $14,000 in service cost. The hell with that. Yes, that is a basic design failure.

Practical(?) options are to ...
  • Skip it. Common enough, but serious trouble after 10-15 years.
  • Clean and lube what you can get to from the top. You can't replace the lower pawls or springs, but with solvent and a brush, you can get it pretty clean by turning it a few times. Some towels for the mess. Lightly relube. I've had mast winches where this was the only practical way, since the bolts were seized to the mast.
  • On some you can't remove the drum at all. Flood the socket with motor oil and spin. Towels to catch what comes out over the next hour. This needs to be done at least annually, but it's easy. You can tell when there is enough oil by the sound and feel, but figure on a few ounces. 10w-40 TCW is a good choice, since the anti-corrosion properties of marine engine oil are slightly better, but anything, really. Not 0 or 5 weights. Gear lube is too heavy for the pawls. The trick is that this needs to be done more often, since it will run off sooner. But it is super easy. I have two secondaries that are a pain, and I've done them this way for a decade, and the boat was 15 when I got it. Typically once per year, but I've done it twice if sailing a lot.
Other winches I service in the recommended way. But I can tell no difference in how they have held up.
Click to expand...
In these threads I've seen it stated that one should not use motor oil on winches (maybe just the tuphnol/bronze, or just bronze ones) because it attacks the Tufnol (which youve discounted) but also because it attacks the bronze.

This sounds (even) more unlikely to me, though IIRC manual automotive transmissions sometimes have bronze in them, and IIRC should use GL3 (unobtainable in Taiwan) and not GL4 gear oil, which can attack "yellow metal."

I didnt use any motor oil, but I used a Comma general purpose automotive grease and a little copper-base antiseize on the ratchet teeth and central bearing shaft, PTFE thread tape wrap on the shaft, with some machine oil on the pawls,

If I was doing it again I might use some candle wax instead of the grease, and might also tape-wrap the pawls.
 
ducked said:
In these threads I've seen it stated that one should not use motor oil on winches (maybe just the tuphnol/bronze, or just bronze ones) because it attacks the Tufnol (which youve discounted) but also because it attacks the bronze.

This sounds (even) more unlikely to me, though IIRC manual automotive transmissions sometimes have bronze in them, and IIRC should use GL3 (unobtainable in Taiwan) and not GL4 gear oil, which can attack "yellow metal."

I didnt use any motor oil, but I used a Comma general purpose automotive grease and a little copper-base antiseize on the ratchet teeth and central bearing shaft, PTFE thread tape wrap on the shaft, with some machine oil on the pawls,

If I was doing it again I might use some candle wax instead of the grease, and might also tape-wrap the pawls.
Click to expand...

The post I was replying to was specific to Harken. No Tufnol. If motor oil attacks Tufnul of the type used, I'm guessing so does grease, since it is just gelled lube oil. Certain high-sulfur gear oils can stain bronze, but I did not suggest gear oil (I cautioned against it).

Candle wax? Totally different from grease.

I would follow the winch manufacturer's advice in every case where it is praticable (not a misspelling--"able to be done or put into practice successfully").
 
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I have my special tube of light (sewing machine?) oil and I take the drums off and splatter some of that on the moving parts whenever I think they need it. Takes only a few minutes as long as the circlips don't go missing. I can't remember the last time I put any grease in there!
 
thinwater said:
The post I was replying to was specific to Harken. No Tufnol. If motor oil attacks Tufnul of the type used, I'm guessing so does grease, since it is just gelled lube oil. Certain high-sulfur gear oils can stain bronze, but I did not suggest gear oil (I cautioned against it).

Candle wax? Totally different from grease.
Click to expand...
That candle wax is different from grease is not in doubt.

What may be in doubt is whether it would work
 
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