Service of Engines before purchase, who takes costs?

[superheat6k]

Regarding contracts, when I bought my current boat I did have the contract modified to state that I can reject the boat for any reason.

+ 1

With a few other caveats included as well, including a fair offer to accept reasonable costs incurred for the sea trial if I did reject, and the fact I would provide the survey I had paid for back to the vendor also if I did reject, but rejection was solely my decision, and not one requiring any justification to the vendor or broker. I also included a caveat to the clause that I could revise my offer if I wished, subject of course to the vendor accepting any revision, and this being for issues discovered at survey and / or sea trial not previously disclosed.

One broker I approached didn't like it, nor my basis of valuation, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the asking prices, another came back with a fair deal, and after the price including my terms was agreed, a very recent survey, for which I had the same surveyor undertake a follow up inspection of the key points (~9 months later).

Presently it remains a buyers market. If a Vendor doesn't like your terms he is at liberty to find another potential buyer. Take on a 'standard' contract at your peril. If the broker says it cannot be altered then be prepared to walk - the broker will have to explain this to his client the vendor.

 

[Stats007]

Read 5.1 of the RYA model contract. It is specific about "a sea trial of the boat, her gear and machinery and all items included in the sale". While it then gives the right to reject if these items do not perform satisfactorily for any reason, the normal interpretation would no include because you did not like the boat. If the seller agrees to a wider interpretation, then fine, but that is not what is intended in the contract.

Remember a contract is a commitment on both sides. The seller cannot withdraw or enter negotiations with anybody else, and it is not reasonable for him to then let you choose to reject the boat unless the boat is not as described.

perform satisfactorily

That is obviously subjective and open to interpretation.

That aside I've yet to see any broker that uses the RYA model contract - each have their own but in my experience they all deem a seatrial to be subjective and you can walk away if the boat isn't to your liking. This includes Ancasta, MGM, WHY Boats, BoatShed, Bates Wharf, Berthon & Network Yacht Brokers - all of which I've looked to - or bought boats through in the last few years. It's common sense really - that's the whole point of a seatrial IMO.

I've always sold boats privately and would always offer a seatrial before a deposit was taken. Why brokers insist on a signed contract first is beyond me as it's clearly not worth the paper it's written on before a seatrial has taken place.

 

[Portofino]

I,am at a loss with this deposit 1st then sea trial .As a buyer today with leisure boats -which are basically big boys toys

I suspect it's a throwback to Cutty Sark days , you need to physically see the speed -to calculate your cargo return and check you cannot put your finger through the bilge planks -far enough .
Fast far ward a few century's -what's changed ?
Do you live in a house for a trial before exchanging ££ , -nope buy it then use it .
Cars do you -deposit ££ with rejection clauses before the test drive ? Infact do you even bother with a test drive ?
Ok boats have oily bits .Old boats have worn oily bits .Old boats have a constant merry go round (and arguably new) of repair /replacement of components , more so the older it is.
My last boat buy -never paid a deposit before looking .I offered to sub diesel bill @ 180L/h ,but broker said no .
Had an hour bombing round bay of Naples -did ask to WOT it and held it for 10 mins , looked at all the gauges and took an infra red thermometer too . Went into the E room looked at everything -when running .
Asked to and was expected to have a rummage . Had all the access panals , up -ran everything etc..

Happy with the sea trial - haggled some repairs and works -kinda adjusted price .
Boat was in a hanger for 3 and 1/2 years -commissioned in June by MAN agents -I saw it October that year -mech was fine ..
I paid a deposit the Day after the sea trial with a view to complete a few weeks later after works -eg new risers fitted .
Broker sent pic,s of works ,antifoul, anodes etc .
I sent balance 2-3 days before del -sailed away .
If do not want it don,t buy it -I don,t get all this vague rejection stuff -giving folks £ then squabbling over actually what rights the two parties have over rhe deposit ,before or after diciding to buy it .

Turning it around -selling
I put my Sunseeker with SS,France in La Napoule .
With in a week 3 potential buyers .I was way ( let the broker earn his € )
1st one viewed on the birth -never heard from them -Wednesday .
Saturday a newbie ,just relocated to Monaco -wanted to get into boats -advised to start small as1st boat .
Broker text to ask if he could take him out on it -broker to helm -sure -take him for a blast in the bay of Cannes .
Broker also told me a German guy was coming down from Germany onSunday -is it poss to take him out ,later he's - bringing his wife + too kids -Sure show them a good time too, I said

Think about it ? What are we trying to do here -ans -sell a boat a9 y old Med boat -why o why build barriers -?

Bit tricky now as German family booked flights at short notice for Sunday unaware or Mr "Monaco" on Sat .
Monoco man likes it -can see the logic of starting small SS try and up sell tuition etc .
Wants to go away and think about it ,after broker took him for 1 hour in the Bay of Cannes .

Sunday arrives German Family like it too -agian broker up sells Guardienarge etc -this chap allready has a superhawk on a lake and wants another SS for the Baltic -knows his Sunseekers -he,s a car dealer .
Monday morning comes by 10 am German guy has wired the deposit ( price agreed -bit less than asking -all within plan -so far .)
11 am Mr Monaco rings up wants to place a deposit "subject to sea trial "
What was Saturday all about ?
Broker told him sorry it's gone to the next guy who sea trialled day after you !
Wednesday -German guy sends engineer to check over the engines paid by him and broker agian -helms boat to ship yard -full morning job - lifted @his -buyers expense -
Thursday broker -receives - slightly adjusted balance ( few bits and bobs to chip me down -but only to basically recover his engineers cost -) Agian -I ask my self same Q -do I want to sell it ?
Friday -German guy sends truck Friday am SS remove all my personal stuff .
Boat gone .

Thing is make it easy forboth parties -and do not put up barriers or make reasons to squabble
Leading to a lost sale .

 

[Steve Clayton]

Hmm , I've hit the same view, I've tracked an owner down and wanted to a deal direct but boats on with PMY so at moment I'm out, shame as its a nice boat. Not sure I want to get involved.

That's not my situation: Seraph is up with a broker and if he is approached and sells it he will get x%.
I can advertise Seraph privately and if I get a direct approach and a successful conclusion then broker gets a much smaller %age for time and trouble.