Sept Yachting Monthly

Sans Bateau

Sans Bateau

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Have you got your Sept Yachting Monthly yet?

Mine arrived yesterday. Seen the article 'Which first boat, Bav 30 or Legend 31?'

Both Opal boats, JJ you havent got a sponsor have you?
 
I just don't get it /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
My first boat was a Corribee. I know I have a big boys boat now, but it seems that it is only just above entry level these days. Sheesh.
 
Other boats were booked to take part but pulled out at the last minute ....


Were they other smaller boats James? Or these are typical?
 
Nor do I.

My first boat was a kayak, then a mirror. My kids started on optimists, cadets and now lasers. Shouldn't the mags be promoting this sort of progression?
 
I've bought a Sea Kayak last year and its every bit as enjoyable as my 32' Beneteau. Bigger isn't necessarily better.
Andy
 
Jim,

isn't this a function of the age at which one takes up sailing? Those of you sensible enough to have started in your youth will have had other significant pressures on your disposable income. Hence the smaller starter boat. Those of us starting in our (ahem) "prime" may well have a little bit more moolah available. Also, if you've done the "cramped holiday" bit in tents & trailer tents (been there, done that, got the mildewed sleeping bag) then a little bit more elbow-room is welcome.
 
James,

I would be interested to know what the other boats were and what was their reason for pulling out.

Also do you feel that a 30 footer is a starter boat? We all know that many people (too many?) can and do do go out and buy a 30ft or even larger boat as a first time yacht, we have all seen them trying to get control over their craft, coming alongside visitors berths etc.

Like lots of others, yourself included I would'nt doubt, started out with something much more modest. Our first boat was I suspect typical, it was a 22 ft 'project'. Not only did it teach us how to sail, it taught me how to repair and maintain a boat. So in learning the skill of boat care has allowed me to be self sufficiant, able to know when something is wrong and be able to put it right before it become a problem, this of course might happen at sea.
 
Re: Starter boat?

Is a 30 footer intrinsically any more difficult to manage than, say, a 26 footer? (assuming they are average sailing cruisers, not buttock-clenching racing machines). Yer basic Centaur, Hunter etc., etc,.... are about that length, and are frequently cited as good first boat.

Or is it the idea of a first boat costing c£50k on the water that is uncomfortable? (a feeling I can share)
 
John,
I am a lifelong motorcyclist, well, since the age of 9 then. I started on a 100cc bike and moved up slowly over the years, as my experience increased, and my budget allowed. The zenith of my career has been to build and ride a 208BHP bike running on Nitrous Oxide, which cost about 10k to build/buy. This bike is available to any numpty who has paid to do a weeks Direct Entry course, and then he/she can ride it legally. Daft idea on a life threatening basis, but apparently OK if you have the privilege bypass.
My personal belief is that an apprenticeship is A Good Idea, and that in sailing terms means starting in the up to 25 footer range and learning boat handling and all the skills necessary to practise our craft, including its maintenance and upkeep. Your good lady was shocked to see me waving a drill about on my new boat, as well as sawbenches and bits of plumbing everywhere. Only doing it on cheap boats was I able to build up the confidence to do it on my mega-yacht(ha ha).
Of course, that is not for everyone, and your budget probably does allow you to pay for a new boat, and to have minions to keep it fettled. Wont help when it breaks down out to sea, or you have to get inventive with a jury rig fix.

I am not suggesting that it should be mandatory, but I think there is a whole segment of boat size that will not be available to future owners, because the 'entry level' has become more exclusive.
Whither the Sportinas, MGs, Hunter 245, Jeanneau 2500, Arvors etc. Does this mean they are sub entry level?

I think that any sport or hobby requiring a 50 grand input at entry level is not one for the masses, and definitely contributes to the dearth of cheaper moorings that we have now.
That and the fact that GRP boats are not rotting away of course /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So all of that said, I don't consider you to be entry level, as you have a privilege bypass to second boat level perhaps.

Have you bought it yet?

Cheers

Jim
 
Re: Entry Level

Jim,

thanks for some kind words. In truth, I agree with you about the apprenticeship. I feel a few twinges of guilt that we're not following the that route. However, as anno domini progresses, you kind of shorten your available time to serve the apprenticeship, before you cast off on that final voyage which we must all take....(Ye gods, I'm getting a bit maudlin...)

Regarding our boat, we know what we want, but we've just had a bit of a financial hiccup which may disturb our plans temporarily /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Re: Starter boat?

[ QUOTE ]
Is a 30 footer intrinsically any more difficult to manage than, say, a 26 footer?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think is so much a size issue, whilst that does have some influence, you can do less damage with a smaller boat for instance.

Its my belief that starting with something that requires you to 'get your hands dirty' allows you to get closer to the mechanics of the boat and the envionment you are going to be entering into.

Brand new and out of the box insulates you from the reality that is the sea. IMO.
 
Starter boats ...

So my 25ft'r is the tender to the starter boat then !!
 
I get the feeling here that the first boat is the first time you go sailing. Mention of an apprenticeship has been made, but on the first boat.
I began yacht sailing as a crew member and did many races and cruises learning from a string of experienced skippers about all things nautical. I was lucky, I guess, because most of my crewing was done while serving in the armed forces who believe in sailing as a character building pastime. After working my way through deckhand to watch leader and then mate it was about 12 years before I became a skipper under training. Another year or so under the eagle eye of people more senior than I, at sailing that is, I was eventually allowed to go as skipper with a crew.
No mention yet of my own "first boat".
I have just heard Geoffrey Boycott's theory of why Test matches are not going the full 5 days, and draws are less frequent. It is the instant gratification syndrome of modern life so maybe that can be applied to sailing as well, got to be an owner/skipper immediately?
 
"It is the instant gratification syndrome of modern life so maybe that can be applied to sailing as well, got to be an owner/skipper immediately? "


I agree. I believe that the owner who shells out a wad for a 30+ footer to start sailing is missing out on the huge amount of pleasure and satisfaction that is gained while learning the ropes in smaller boats and the mags would do us all a service by plugging dinghy sailing as a good way to start. Then maybe the marinas wouldn't be full up with brand new boats that are hardly ever used.
 
I think that one of the reasons the first boat is getting bigger is because of the more developed charter market that we have these days. You can do quite a lot of learning on charter boats, so that you know exactly what you want in your first boat.

I'll put my hand up and say my 44 footer was my first proper cruising boat. My previous boat was a hunter 707 which is basically an overgrown dinghy cause it is dry sailed and only needs dinghy type maintenance. All my actual yacht cruising experience was based on charter boats for weekends and 2 week holidays. That was the way I found out that, at 6ft 6in with a 6ft SWMBO, 44 foot was the smallest boat we could comfortably fit in (by comfortably I mean that we could share a cabin).
 
Hmmm...

I think there are 2 seperate issues developing -

1) The "apprenticeship" concept was, I think, as much about caring for & maintaining the boat as sailing her. Note Jim's comments about the confidence to attack a new 35 footer with sundry power tools being based on having made the occasional horlicks of a job on a cheap(ish) smaller boat.

2) There also seems to be some thoughts that somehow a first-time owner lashing out loadsamoney on a new boat is wrong. This surely depends on how they approach ownership - a cautious approach involving training, building up confidence through gradually extending cruising range and weather conditions should bring satisfaction. Someone expecting a "plug & play" approach to sailing is bound to be disappointed....These approaches are not specific to any combination of boat size/age.
 
It is only in the eyes of the magazines and perhaps AWB marketing folk that a 30 footer is a starter boat. There are plenty of 20-25 foot boats being manufactured today, and altho some may be for experienced downsizers most are aimed at those who cannot afford anything bigger, but want to buy new.

I am in the "old, small, something to cut your teeth on" category with an Achilles 24. One day i might buy a new 30 footer but it will be far from being my first boat.
 
I suppose it depends on your personal experiences & cash.

For me entry level was sailing on a mates 22ft Fox Terrier before moving to my own first cruiser a Wayfarer. Now let anyone tell me thats a Dinghy not a cruiser.

I moved up, in size to an Eventide 24 before My current superyacht a Colvic 26.

Now I do sail much bigger yachts but I started & still do sail at this level.

There are times when I find it extremely frustrating that I cannot get a yacht that draws 2.3 Metres into some of my favourite places. Small is extremely beautiful.

Biigger boat means bigger bills. Great if you have the disposable cash. I don't.

IMHO the reason that 35-45 footers get talked about as entry level boats is because the Magazines promote this idea because boat manufacturers indicate that their largest sales come from boats of this size. The fact that they have no way of guaging the true entry level i.e. the size of second hand boat that most of us purchase as our first vessel, is what drives them to presume that we all start with £150,000 boats.

Martin /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
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