Selling Expired Flares

[chrishscorp]

To answer a question on here, whilst at the Boat Show I asked a well known Chandler what the requirements were for selling and storing flares.

In order to sell and store flares you have to be registered and Licenced with the local Council. They are kept in a secure locked metal cabinet that is clearly labeled as to what it is. That cabinet is located X meters from public boundary, point of access etc etc. A plan of its location is given to the local fire brigade.
It looks like the premises also need to be seperately registered under the Explosives Act 2014.

Its no wonder these things cost so much to buy, the hoops that retailers need to jump through and the cost of the licenses.

I have fired a red parachute flare under the supervision of HMCG, i have also fired several handheld signals. They do the job they are designed for, they deserve a serious amount of respect.
The wisdom of selling out of date Pyrotechnics and sending them by a courier who state in their T&Cs they will not carry them I would have personnally thought required little discussion.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

You may think it 'requires little discussion', I think that if people feel the need for strict regulations and controls in every aspect of their daily lives, because they are unable to make their own decisions, that's their private business.

But when they start telling me ( a complete stranger) about my conscience and responsibilties, the risks I am subjecting my crew to, then they can do one.

I though sailing was an adventurous pastime, but many seem to love it for the extra rules it offers, so they can be ever more adherent to the ever-stricter edicts emanating from anally-retentive office workers. Sad really.

Some unfortunate people live to berate the non-compliant freewheelers amongst us with tut-tutting, fingerwagging scoldings from the security of their 'mind-forg'd manacles'.

 

[Deleted member 478]

You may think it 'requires little discussion', I think that if people feel the need for strict regulations and controls in every aspect of their daily lives, because they are unable to make their own decisions, that's their private business.

But when they start telling me ( a complete stranger) about my conscience and responsibilties, the risks I am subjecting my crew to, then they can do one.

I though sailing was an adventurous pastime, but many seem to love it for the extra rules it offers, so they can be ever more adherent to the ever-stricter edicts emanating from anally-retentive office workers. Sad really.

Some unfortunate people live to berate the non-compliant freewheelers amongst us with tut-tutting, fingerwagging scoldings from the security of their 'mind-forg'd manacles'.

Same goes for the entitled tossers that expect a restaurant to be responsible for their food allergies.

 

[A1Sailor]

You may think it 'requires little discussion', I think that if people feel the need for strict regulations and controls in every aspect of their daily lives, because they are unable to make their own decisions, that's their private business.

But when they start telling me ( a complete stranger) about my conscience and responsibilties, the risks I am subjecting my crew to, then they can do one.

I hope you include a warning to your crew that some of your safety gear is out of date as part of your briefing - so that they aren't "unable to make their own decisions".

 

[ltcom]

In all honesty having just had the experience or firing flares in a controlled (& legal) environment, including an in date one that went very wrong, I am shocked by this seller and situation but I want to get the facts on my side before raising it with anyone in authority ( It seems by their listings that they must have quite a stock of them )

Can u tell us what went wrong with your in date flare ( so I can try to avoid an accident).

Agree about selling flares on eBay is bad (to yobs?). My Hermes lady has a child in car. If flare was in box and last delivery of day on a hot day ..... (we all know about the self ignition of flare in a fibre glass liferaft canister sitting in the sun)

 

[sarabande]

Can u tell us what went wrong with your in date flare ( so I can try to avoid an accident).

Agree about selling flares on eBay is bad (to yobs?). My Hermes lady has a child in car. If flare was in box and last delivery of day on a hot day ..... (we all know about the self ignition of flare in a fibre glass liferaft canister sitting in the sun)

I'd really like chapter and verse on that last sentence please.

 

[ltcom]

I'd really like chapter and verse on that last sentence please.

I read about it on this forum. The search function is bad. SOMEONE on here told of his flare going off in canister on his coach roof on a hot day. Will do a Google search.
Edit.... I can't find the thread. Someone on here told the tale of canister lighting in hot sun coz of flare in it. So far i can only find ...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?39002-Fire!-Fire!

Post 3...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?48936-D-I-Y-way-to-scrap-old-flares

I don't think this is it either coz I read the thread within last year I thought....
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?453713-Life-rafts-can-be-dangerous
It isn't this thread either....http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?406105-yacht-fire-horror
Anyone else remember reading about It? Canister was on coach roof in sun I recall.

Ps I have no concern carrying or using flares.
Was the post I am thinking of in the Cody Box kite thread?

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

I hope you include a warning to your crew that some of your safety gear is out of date as part of your briefing - so that they aren't "unable to make their own decisions".

Maybe re-read the second paragraph of the quote :sleeping:

 

[NormanS]

Can u tell us what went wrong with your in date flare ( so I can try to avoid an accident).

Agree about selling flares on eBay is bad (to yobs?). My Hermes lady has a child in car. If flare was in box and last delivery of day on a hot day ..... (we all know about the self ignition of flare in a fibre glass liferaft canister sitting in the sun)

You've got me worried now. Maybe you would like to explain why flares in a car are so more dangerous than the same flares in a boat.

 

[dunedin]

The most well-publicised, non-anecdotal UK flare accident was caused by an in-date flare..and that's not a one in a billion chance..
By the way, an OOD flare worked, and got us towed off some rocks, this summer. (A 100% success rate for the flares I have let off to attract attention at sea. Out of date of course).
I have let of lots of flares of all types, all out of date, and they all worked fine.

Were the charts out of date as well ?

 

[ltcom]

You've got me worried now. Maybe you would like to explain why flares in a car are so more dangerous than the same flares in a boat.

Hermes delivery lady has her cardboard boxes on backseat and parcel shelf where sunlight reaches them through glass windows. On my boat flares are kept in a very solid plastic tub (often seen on ribs) in the shade.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

Were the charts out of date as well ?

Rocks don't move!

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

I just looked up the 'official' Pains Wessex instructions about wrapping OOD flares for posting.
Sticky tape to hold the lids, bubblewrap, and a cardboard box.
Just the same as they arrived from Ebay, perhaps the seller looked it up as well?
I was looking for guidance about keeping them in liferaft canisters in the tropical sun, I think the temp could maybe approach 50c, which does give you pause for thought..I haven't found it yet but it must be out there.
I know a cool place is recommended, but obviously yachts and sunshine go together so that must be a best case scenario, and reality means flares will be kept at several dozen degrees C for months.

 

[A1Sailor]

Maybe re-read the second paragraph of the quote :sleeping:

No need - I read it the first time. My Mummy taught me to read.
Would you really tell your crew to "do one"? What other safety equipment do you have that is out of date?

 

[A1Sailor]

Rocks don't move!

Why did you need towed off rocks? Is your engine old and decrepit?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I just looked up the 'official' Pains Wessex instructions about wrapping OOD flares for posting.
Sticky tape to hold the lids, bubblewrap, and a cardboard box.
Just the same as they arrived from Ebay, perhaps the seller looked it up as well?

But you didn't know that when you ordered them, they could have arrived in a plastic mail bag. That's why there are rules, to make sure that just any idiot isn't sending flares through the post, without declaring that.

What other rules do you disagree with and ignore ?

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

No need - I read it the first time. My Mummy taught me to read.
Would you really tell your crew to "do one"? What other safety equipment do you have that is out of date?

All my safety equipment is out of date, much of it goes back to the 1950's.
The 'do one' applies not to my crew, but to the world's busybodies, who, a bit like the Puritans are never happy if they suspect that someone, somewhere, is running with scissors.
Sometimes it's beyond me how this country built an empire, when her mariners get their panties in a bunch about dates on fireworks

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

.. What other rules do you disagree with and ignore ?

'Whaddaya got?'

 

[Old Bumbulum]

I expect you'll find it's a criminal offense to send these things by post or courier without declaring what they are and the package carrrying the correct HAZMAT label.
As this goon sends them by Hermes he certainly isn't complying with that as Hermes say they don't carry hazardous goods of flammable materials.
They might even end up going be airmail - now what is a truly scary thought and one that should make it clear to all why posting pyros unlabelled is utterly and criminally insane.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

Not Hermes, another courier.
What do you think about posting blank cartridges or LPG gas bottles by courier, unlabelled? It's routine, and occurs globally, thousands of times a day, is that also criminally insane?