Selling boat and renting instead?

SnaxMuppet

SnaxMuppet

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I am seriously thinking about selling my boat and renting one for the day on days that I want to go boating. I know that I used the boat a lot this year because I went round Britain but since returning I have only used it a few times and it has got me thinking that there might be a better way to do boating without owning a boat myself.

I am fortunate here in Plymouth because there is a place at QAB marina that hires out small Arvors so if they are still in business next year it would be easy to hire a boat occasionally.

Has anyone sold their boat with the intention to just hire occasionally?
 
Sure, I can see that for you Haydn that might be the case... you have a much bigger boat than mine (and hence more stuff) and if I had a boat like yours then I probably wouldn't consider hiring. However, I really don't have much that I take on board as I don't even heat water for tea and instead I take a flask (a lot easier in such a small boat). Also, I have had a look at the Arvors at QAB and they really aren't junk. In fact, they are mostly all in good condition. Yours is a comfy boat for staying away on too... mine is really only used for day fishing etc. Different ball game altogether.

I am interested in anyone that HAS done it and what were your conclusions... did it work for you?
 
I used to have a little boat. it was hardly usable. First you had to hire a cottage, or a caravan. Then you were stuck in comming back to the same place all the time. A bigger boat lets you roam about, weather is not so much a problem. We'll be on the boat for a couple of weeks after boxing day. Heating on. Dunno where we will get to.
 
If it flies,floats or fornicates it's cheaper to rent it,

Felix Dennis,

the problem is, if I wanted to hire a boat the same as I have, it's from £500/€800 per day plus fuel.

Personally, a boat represents a life style, going to the boat every day available, even just to sit and fettle with her, cleaning, maintenance, fitting new equipment, staying onboard for a few days, watching the world go by, no phone, no door bell, and being able to let go mooring lines and bugger off to almost anywhere you want to, without the thought, " I've got to take it back" yes it costs, but it's the same with any pastime, how much is a membership of a golf club? That's Roger Rat's cue, or should that be wood, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif there's lots of pursuits that don't cost a fortune, but owning a boat isn't one of them.
 
We chartered in the Friesland Lakes area in Holland in 2007 and intend doing likewise either on the Canal du Midi or the Croatian coast in 2009.
The Dutch boat was a superbly presented and comfortable 42 footer.
We were not lucky. We researched the charter companies until finding a short list of companies with boats of suitable quality. It was not especially expensive. Actually slightly less than the cost of the diesel to get our own boat to the same area.
There is plenty of rubbish around, but also some very good ones. Check them out first.
 
Different end of the spectrum I guess (and forgive me if this sounds like a plug) but we are in the throws of putting various packages together for fractional ownership and charter on several of our models. I didn't think at first it would of great interest but perhaps with the market the way it is it is a much more attractive way for people to keep boating but on a much reduced budget yet still maintain the same standard of vessel or even bigger / better. Not untrue to say we have been quite surprized with the amount of interest. We hope to have the first 52 positioned in SoF by March and already she is booked up through Cannes Film festival and Monaco Grand prix. If this turns out successful we will put a 56 and a 70 there too.

I guess this financial situation has brought everyone to reconsider how they use their boats and do they really need to have exclusive 365 day a year access to it or would they rather down size or have to give up or still have the same boat but a quarter of the cost and none of the hassle.

I could be mistaken but for the foreseeable future I really think this is the way a not insignificant proportion of people will go when considering use V's Cost and still wishing to maintain the ability to stay in the same size yacht without breaking the bank. In some cases you end up with very little cost at all because of the claw back from charter revenue which at the sub 80' has seen an increase in interest from those that have sold up but still want the few weeks a year use and those that are downsizing their charter expenditure into something 40% -50% cheaper.
 
I have sold up earlier this year, and part of the reason was the significantly increasing cost of the boat vs the actual use we were getting out of it.

Doing the sums we reckon we can charter for a couple of weeks, perhaps 2 x 1 week charters in different parts of the Med, for the same annual cost that we had maintaining the boat. We also have also wanted to do the Canal du Midi and caledonian canal, and not having a current boat allows us the luxury of swapping around.

I think as pointed out you have to do the research to ensure you get a decent boat, but they are out there, and I hope there will be some deals to be done in 2009, given the market may be slower.

The long term ideal for us is to find a 50% share with someone who is like minded in terms of maintenance and use of a boat, not so much fractional ownership, I am not sure that works for us - but basically just splitting the ownership and maintenance in two.

But then again who knows - along comes a Targa at a 'you cant turn it down price' and everything changes /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Trouble is my boat has to be "just so" which I would not get from such a scheme as I am just a little over the top when it comes to my idea of perfection. I think they call it OCD these days. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts.

I really do take on board all of your thoughts.

Hlb, Oneway... I see what you mean. For you both you spend time on board for more than a day and I too would probably feel very much like you if my boat was a cruiser. I would want my things on board in the places I want them and not have to keep carrying to and from when I hire. For me that wouldn't be fun and like you I probably wouldn't do it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nautical, I have to say that fractional ownership is very attractive right now. For similar costs we could buy into a bigger boat probably located somewhere warmer!. We owned an aeroplane a few years ago (swmbo and I are both pilots) on fractional ownership. It worked reasonably well except that one or two people in the group didn't really look after the plane and did most of the damage costing the rest of us more than it should have. So we decided to buy a plane outright which, of course, we much preferred but the same old story... it didn't get used enough to justify the fixed costs. We sold after a couple of years and didn't buy again. If I were to consider fractional ownership I would want it to be with other, like-minded persons who are competent and conscientious (I know accidents happen and I can accept that but incompetence or disregard I cannot accept when it is my money being spent!). So, for me that is the real problem with shared ownership... it is shared costs and if one or two persons cause more than their fair share of damage then it can be very expensive and very frustrating. I don't know how to get around that one...? Any ideas...?

I am not a "potterer" and I don't subscribe to the "way of life" aspect although I can very much see the attraction for some... I am a "if it is broke then get a man in to fix it" type of person and if I can't afford to do that then for me I can't afford the boat (or car or plane or anything else I do!). The only exception to that in my life has been my karts... I raced karts and did all the mechanical stuff myself as that was half the fun but that is another story (and another forum /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

I think you have given me more to think about and I will mull on it it over the Christmas break. Thanks.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!
 
"I don't know how to get around that one. Any ideas?"

Yes, choose your "partner/s" carefully.
We agreed that if I caused any damage I'd pay for the repair and vice versa. It's all down to the people involved trusting and liking each other.

Because I use the boat more than my "oppo" I also pay a bit more for regular maintenence.

The system seems to work well because we know the other partner wouldn't try to fiddle us.
Obviously the smaller the number in the syndicate, the better.
 
That makes sense but it isn't easy is it...

If you are starting a new group for fractional ownership then you can pick and choose who you set up with and then I agree... get to know your potential partners first and be sure you get one and are of similar mindset. But when you are buying in to an existing group then it is much more difficult.

Also, repair damage if you do it I agree with but a lot of damage is cumulative and it isn't easy to attribute the cause to any single member of the group or to any single incident.

An example of that was when we had a shared ownership in the plane it was a Cessna 177RG. For those unfamiliar with light aircraft ir is a 4 seater single engine with retractable undercarraige but the undercarraige on this particular model has a more complicated mechanism than most and is particularly susceptable to damage from hard landings. The problem was that the damage built up over several landings and it was only at maintenence times that it was discovered and repaired. It was impossible to determine when the damage was done or who did it. In fact, even if I did a bit of a heavy landing it was not possible to determine if it caused any damage on that particular occasion but I always thought it could have and so I made a note in the log... others didn't. Fortunately, heavy landings for me are a rarity but for some in the group they were their standard method of arrival!!!

With a boat I can see similar oppotunities for misues resulting in higher bills for everyone but not attributable to anyone in particular.
 
Take your point, however, this particular scheme the vessel is under management, when you arrive back after your period of use the vessel is inspected from top to bottom, cleaned, valeted and logged back in, our guys on the ground will check over everything anything a miss or damaged is attributed to that owner, repaired and as new again before the next owner. General wear and tear comes out of the annual budget. What you do get is a yacht in absolutely tip top condition all the time.

when you arrive, aircon is on, food in the fridge and any special requests done. We can even arrange your travel and transfers. You also have the opportuntity to swap your time slots with other vessels in different locations. A big advantage over other schemes is that you are only liable for your 1/4 share it is not joint and several where if others defaulted you end up with the bill. You can also trade your share up into a bigger yacht so a goodly proportion of the capital investment in the next step up is covered by your existing share, you don't have to wait to sell it to move either up or down.

Any I am off to stuff my face with turkey /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wishing everyone a fantastic day and wonderful Christmas.
 
Trev,

Sounds a good deal for those who are time poor and cash rich. It is not the buying that costs...but the running costs. I bet given the current climate your groups will become very popular.

BTW, is it Ocean Nautic running it or a new Co made up of other dealers as well? Or is it the manufacturer hedging their bets?

Cheers and merry Christmas!

Paul! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Hi Arnie, we went the other way. We used to charter and rent, found it a pain. Now our boat has become a home from home and we have a full inventory of gear on board. We rarley day boat, usually always staying out for one or two nights at minimum, so we need to switch on and go with just one light travel bag each coming from the car. The rest of our gear lives on the boat (eg spare clothing, non-perisheable foods and bev, bedding, entertainment, etc).
 
OceanFroggie, We found that approach worked with the yacht because it was big enough to live on for days, weeks at a time. Our little Merry Fisher 625 isn't big enough for that approach. It isn't big enough to stay on for more than a few days and even then only at a push. OK, I did manage 8 weeks on the Round Britain trip but it was just me and I didn't really "live" on board... more just sleep on board as most meals were ether self-heating sachets or meals ashore. Clothes were limited too as storage space is not really sufficient for more than day trips or weekends.

Nautical, I like the sound of that but I am doubtful that we could afford that kind of service nowdays... when we owned the plane yes, but now swmbo is retired and I am semi-retired so income is not what it was /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
hired loads of boats in the past, & enjoyed it, its just not the same as deciding lets just push off for a couple of weeks. Thick jumpers already on board, TV where you left it, controls understood. Food you like in the cupboards, drink you like in the cabinet. Although have to admit arriving today with a case, yes a case of dry ginger (after being asked by hlb what else needed packing !!!) that was a bit much.

We've stuck with an older boat, concerned with losing a lot of money over the diesel issue, and now the credit crunch, so its not really as if we that much more invested than a caravan, & thats what we have a floating caravan, we can use at any time, & move it at anytime elsewhere if we get bored. Suits us. Might in the future have the odd hiring of another boat, but if you really use a boat as we can & have for 10 weeks + a year, then it is a second movable home.
 
Eh up Trev, Don't suppose you've got a 1/4 share going heck of a cheap on a 39??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Al. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I think this is going to be an excellent idea for the next couple of years because IMHO, the charter market is going to suffer big time during the recession and there are going to be too many boats chasing too little business so you'll be able to get some heavily discounted charter rates
 
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