Self-Draining Cockpit Brainstorm

nickrj

nickrj

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Firstly, Happy New Year!

You all have sort of become my little collaborative shorecrew, and I must say, everyones advice over the last year has been absolutely invaluable. I am readying to leave continental Europe now, but I have one more pressing issue to try and solve, which I hope isn't too much to ask.

In 1972, my boat was born without a cockpit drain. If she was born in 1973, I would not be making this post, because the issue was solved.

The problem stems from the cockpit floor being below the waterline. I tried to fix this already with a 1 1/2in seacock four inches above the cockpit floor, piped into a seacock on the waterline. This was a ridiculous attempt at solving the issue, and clearly shows I am not a shipwright, and also shows I may have a below-average IQ.

Jeremy Rogers recommends I should haul the boat out, and place a sea cock in the bilge, just in front of the engine, and run a pipe up to my drain outlet in the cockpit. This is a great idea, and would solve the problem, but I can't work on my own boat in the marina here and must hire an 'engineer' (hello, I don't sail a 7.7metre boat because I have cash in the bank...). If you're interested in hearing my quote to drill a sea cock in, plus haul in haul out, it's 350euros + VAT. That's my entire provisioning budget!

Now, obviously this is a really big problem. But can anyone think of any innovative solutions? One particular one, whether it is good or bad I haven't really decided, is to actually pipe the drain into the raw water inlet of the engine! I think thats some interesting lateral thinking, and in the vein of what I'm asking: Have you seen this issue solved to a reasonable level of safety without hauling the boat out?

Sorry for the long post...

nick
 
Your arrangement sounds like a practical solution to the problem. The majority of the water will be removed leaving the dregs to be bailed out with either a dinghy "scoop" bailer or a dustpan. Just remember to tie them on.
 
Sounds mad l know but what about putting a 'Y' connection onto the existing inlet seacock for the engine. This seacock will always be low down on the hull. Put a one way valve in line for good measure. Only a temp solution but might work until the next haul out?
 
If your cockpit floor is below sea level, ANY connection to the outside world will result in the cockpit flooding until the water level is the same as that outside the hull. Even with a one way valve it would only drain until the inside and outside levels were the same.The only solutions are Pumping or Joinery.(or stay away from BIG SEAS)
 
There is a Contessa 26 here which has a drain in the aft end of the cokpit about 4 - 5" above the cockpit sole - I think it goes out through the transom, and it should work OK at helping to dump water fast if you do get a big green wave landing in the cockpit.
It sounds like you have the same arrangement - in which case what is wrong with yours? Does it let water in while you are heeled over?
Of course you will still have to either bail out the 4 or 5" remaining in the cockpit, or perhaps allow it to drain into the bilge (but keep the seacock closed) and then pump it overboard.

The easiest suggestion would be to raise the height of the cockpit sole...... but then you will be more likely to bash your head on the boom I suppose..... and it would be a big job if you are thinking of cutting out the old cockpit sole.
In which case, how about installing a false sole 4 or 5" above the existing floor, to suit the drain higher up, and just have a void space between the two soles?
 
I would not bother at all. A decent bilge pump that can be worked inside the cabin and another mounted on a board that can be moved about should do you. I have yet to see an effective retro-fitted s/d cockpit unless you can raise that cockpit sole atleast half a foot and then have two 1 1/2 inch crossed over drains.

PS Personally I would be against piping anything to the engine intake - one day you WILL forget to turn that extra seacock which is easily done with just one anyway - and those VETUS waterlocks aint cheap!
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is a Contessa 26 here which has a drain in the aft end of the cokpit about 4 - 5" above the cockpit sole

[/ QUOTE ] This sounds like an excellent compromise - dealing with the last 4" if the cockpit fills is not a big problem, but the top foot or so might be!

Our drains are actually a couple of inches above the waterline when stationary, but the stern squats up to four inches at six knots so we get wet feet.

Another tip mentioned by the poster above is that if you do raise the cockpit and install drains you should cross the drains so the leeward one doesn't flood the cockpit when heeled.

- W
 
You need a scupper valve on the end of a pipe running from the cockpit to the transom, as close to the centre line as possible and above the waterline. The scupper valve - Seafit makes one as does Perko - allows water out but not in. I believe you can get one for a 1.5" pipe and up to 2" hull thickness.
You obviously can't do anything about the water in the cockpit below the waterline.
 
Well, the existing 'system' I already have instealled, is a 1.5" outlet, four inches above the cockpit floor, which you have noted will mean the first four inches of the cockpit will be full of water, but I think that's ok. The sea cock I drilled is in the center of the boat, right on the waterline. If you open the valve, the water just laps on the bottom of it.

The issue with this is, because of the steep angle of the transom, the inside end of the seacock is at an upwards angle, so if you run a pipe from the outlet in the cockpit to the seacock in the transom, the transom seacock is slightly higher than the cockpit inlet. I am actually afraid that in the right conditions, ie. sitting still, it could actually become a siphon and sink the boat.

I have two manual bilge pumps, in the cockpit and in the boat. I guess even with the not-so-ideal gravity situation of the current setup, if I tanked a really serious amount of water, the pressure would send it out the inlet anyway, which I could open manually if in a dire situation.

I guess it also begs the question of what kind of situation I'd need to be in, to get so much water at once to be at a serious risk. Also, if somehow the boat rolled, surely when righting it would fill the cockpit?

It just seems particuarly dangerous to me, but maybe I'm over exagerating the probability of that kind of scenario, or its true danger.

nick
 
The scupper valve is a non-return valve so there would be no question of syphoning. I'm sure the possibility doesn't exist even without the scupper valve.
I see how the severe angle of the transom could be a problem but you could use a wooden block to create a vertical portion where the pipe exits.
The requirement to open a seacock to drain the cockpit is not really desirable; self-draining is the goal.
At some level the cockpit has to drain and that level has to be before the cockpit lockers or the companionway allow water into the boat, so I would have thought that even a drain at the top of the footwell would be better than nothing.
 
Lots of older generation wooden boats didn't have self-draining cockpits, but had very small cockpits (just a 'leg well', really).

Could you follow this thinking, and reduce the volume of the cockpit?

eg convert some of it into locker space?
 
Nick I'll leave the techy advice to more knowledgeable people than moi - but have you considered going around to Nazare where there is a drying out ramp? An added attraction is the delightful harbourmaster and his wife (english) who if they are still there will make you feel very welcome, to the extent that I know at least one couple who popped in and stayed overnight plus 9 months or so. If your still in that rip-off C------s you will welcome the change. Good luck with whatever you choose.
 
Oakum, my thoughts entirely !.
Nick my friend, I am not decrying anyones advice here, but, JR is the MAN for contessas.. perhaps you should ask him again re some of the advice given here.
A couple of points.

The main thing to avoid at all times is the situation where the saloon can fill due to the hatch level.. keep the boards in and make sure they are cross bolted !.
Waves that fill cockpits tend to also cause rapid emptying due to instability of the boat in a full cockpit situation...
YOUR boat will not have much of a problem if pooped IF you have the companionway secured.
Personally I would not trust a one way valve.. JR's advice is sound, and HE should know.
The engine intake is likely far too small...
I think you are probably worrying too much about it lol...

If possible, just follow oakums advice and dry the boat, have all the kit ready and go for it.. or, just keep the hatch boards in and BOLTED and get a good bucket and security line for it.
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Joe
 
Don't sweat it !
My advice.
Reduce the size of the cockpit trough to little more than a footwell,using two pieces of plywood and at the same time create useful extra storage for transatlantic cans and juice cartons etc.You might even get the inflatable dinghy in too.
In fact,leaving your existing 11/2'' drain and infilling the bottom 4 inches of the whole cockpit with polystyrene and a sheet of ply over that would give you a working solution affordably and speedily.

One thing is certain. A cubic metre of water weighs one ton so by reducing the volume of floodable cockpit you really help the boat to rid itself of excessive water weight from a breaking wave-before the next breaking wave.
I employed this technique on a fibreglass boat a bit smaller than yours and doing the same trip,the difference being that I reckognised that December was too late in the year for me to attempt to nip down to the Canaries-the average swell height will be pretty big now,there is a good chance of encountering adverse sw gales and you will need exceptional good luck to pick a 7 day pleasant window-in my limited experience !
Instead I wintered inexpensively and worked on the Algarve and had a really pleasant June sail,by which time I had more funds and a better fitted out and stronger boat-and some wonderful experiences that I would have missed.
At the end of the day you are the captain of your own vessel,so whatever you decide to do,good luck!

Small cockpit=small problem
 
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