'Self assembly' guardwires with coated wire.

[jwilson]

I am familiar with and would be quite happy with several types of "swageless" wire rigging fittings. However I just spotted Guardrail Set which appears to rely on a single tiny grubscrew to retain the wire in a terminal. Not wishing to knock F4 - I've bought plenty of perfectly good stuff from them over the years - but is this type of attachment really a good idea for guardwires? Also they use coated wire which is now (probably correctly) regarded as bad because of potential hidden corrosion.

 

[pvb]

I am familiar with and would be quite happy with several types of "swageless" wire rigging fittings. However I just spotted Guardrail Set which appears to rely on a single tiny grubscrew to retain the wire in a terminal. Not wishing to knock F4 - I've bought plenty of perfectly good stuff from them over the years - but is this type of attachment really a good idea for guardwires? Also they use coated wire which is now (probably correctly) regarded as bad because of potential hidden corrosion.

Each fitting has 3 grubscrews, arranged so that 1 is at 90 degrees to the other 2. Despite that, I wouldn't be particularly happy with the strength of the attachment. And, as you say, PVC-coated wire isn't generally considered a good idea.

So why not just measure up and get a local rigger to swage some fittings on to wire for you?

 

[Plum]

I would rather use dyneema line and connect the ends with a scaffold knot. Also self-assembly and possibly less money for the same strength.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[vyv_cox]

I suppose there must be some history to this 'corrosion under plastic' story. I replaced a pair of guardwires that were about 15 years old and found no corrosion whatsoever despite several cracks and splits in the plastic. I fitted the same again. Mine have a mixture of Sta-lok and Norseman end fittings, not very convenient but plenty of spare cones.

 

[r_h]

I suppose there must be some history to this 'corrosion under plastic' story. I replaced a pair of guardwires that were about 15 years old and found no corrosion whatsoever despite several cracks and splits in the plastic. I fitted the same again. Mine have a mixture of Sta-lok and Norseman end fittings, not very convenient but plenty of spare cones.

Plastic coated guardwire isn't allowed for racing, my understanding of the thinking behind that regulation is that it makes it impossible to inspect the condition of the wire itself, whether for corrosion or for broken strands.
In most cases it will probably be fine, but as far as I can see there's no way of being sure.

 

[pvb]

Plastic coated guardwire isn't allowed for racing, my understanding of the thinking behind that regulation is that it makes it impossible to inspect the condition of the wire itself, whether for corrosion or for broken strands.
In most cases it will probably be fine, but as far as I can see there's no way of being sure.

The link in your signature doesn't seem to work.

 

[MoodySabre]

I suppose there must be some history to this 'corrosion under plastic' story. I replaced a pair of guardwires that were about 15 years old and found no corrosion whatsoever despite several cracks and splits in the plastic. I fitted the same again. Mine have a mixture of Sta-lok and Norseman end fittings, not very convenient but plenty of spare cones.

On my old Snappie I once slipped and fell on the guardwire which promptly broke. Fortunately I didn'y go overboard. It was only about 40 years old at the time......

 

[Yngmar]

However I just spotted Guardrail Set which appears to rely on a single tiny grubscrew to retain the wire in a terminal.

In my research, I've found these too and at some point stumbled upon load ratings for them (the grubscrew terminals). From memory, they were rated to about 800 kg BL, which is less than half the BL of the 5mm wire that fitted them (around 2 tons IIRC). I felt that was a bit pointless and went with (probably Chinese) copies of Bluewave terminals for around £12 each. They were from this seller: Swageless terminals Eye balustrade 5mm Marine Stainless Steel 714757305133 | eBay

Pretty happy with them so far although haven't tried bouncing a human being off them yet.

 

[jwilson]

Each fitting has 3 grubscrews, arranged so that 1 is at 90 degrees to the other 2. Despite that, I wouldn't be particularly happy with the strength of the attachment. And, as you say, PVC-coated wire isn't generally considered a good idea.

So why not just measure up and get a local rigger to swage some fittings on to wire for you?

I did .... Just spotted these sets when searching for something else.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I suppose there must be some history to this 'corrosion under plastic' story. I replaced a pair of guardwires that were about 15 years old and found no corrosion whatsoever despite several cracks and splits in the plastic. I fitted the same again. Mine have a mixture of Sta-lok and Norseman end fittings, not very convenient but plenty of spare cones.

I've had a plastic coated guardrail break: at a slightly swollen point of a 25 year old piece that hadn't be in contact with anything else.

It broke so easily that I've changed the guard rails of all of my boats owned since to uncoated stainless. The peace of mind is worth the cash.

 

[Seajet]

My original guardwires - kit built boat so we sourced them not knowing any better, nor did a lot of other people in the 1970's - were plastic covered and proved to be mild steel wire; one did indeed break when someone was thrown against them say ten years later, we were lucky not to have a tragedy on our hands.

So of course I fitted bare stainless wires all round, and view plastic covered wires with deep suspicion.

Another point I feel worth making is that now we don't have to worry about quadrantal error upsetting RDF readings there's no excuse for lashings; proper pelican hooks are much handier, and can be released in a MOB situation or every time people are getting in or out of a tender - cutting lashings to get a MOB back aboard leaves the boat without guardrails that side, quite probably in heavy weather.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Where the wires pass through the stanchion, the sharp edge can damage the wire. Mine are fitted with solid plugs drilled through.

 

[Seajet]

My stanchions have plastic tubes for the wire to go through - thankfully intact even after 42 years.

I can understand the temptation to go for DIY guardwires, if doing it again I'd go for that option - it used to be a case of very careful measuring at least three times, then take the stanchions to a chandlery for them to make up the wires with the hard eyes on.

Re pelican hooks these come in two types, swaged on directly or shackled to a hard eye in a slightly shorter wire - most of us have a big box of various shackles, with a bit of rummaging the right length can be found so there's no need for bottlescrews.

 

[RichardS]

Each fitting has 3 grubscrews, arranged so that 1 is at 90 degrees to the other 2.

That really puzzled me at first. I was thinking you can have 3 screws at 120 degrees or 2 at 90 degrees and 1 at 135 degrees but how can you have 1 at 90 degrees?

But I got there in the end.

Richard

 

[pvb]

That really puzzled me at first. I was thinking you can have 3 screws at 120 degrees or 2 at 90 degrees and 1 at 135 degrees but how can you have 1 at 90 degrees?

But I got there in the end.

Persistence pays dividends!

 

[Muddy32]

Slight thread drift, but I do insist that the fenders are not tied to the guardrail, maybe easier to adjust but puts a strain on the stanchion bases. Likewise I dislike folk who pull themselves onboard using the guardrails. The crazing of the gel coat and resultant weakness is not wanted.

 

[Rappey]

Regarding dyneema, In a report the US Coastguard tested every knot known to man (so the article says) and every knot slipped undone when under load. The best holding knot only managed to achieve 13% of its breaking strain before the knot slipped and undid!
Their recommendation was to never tie ,only splice dyneema.

 

[GHA]

Regarding dyneema, In a report the US Coastguard tested every knot known to man (so the article says) and every knot slipped undone when under load. The best holding knot only managed to achieve 13% of its breaking strain before the knot slipped and undid!
Their recommendation was to never tie ,only splice dyneema.

There are better sources of test reports out there, or was anyway but still available. There are a (very)few knots which don't slip.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160318230212/http://www.bethandevans.com/load.htm

EStar Stopper Knot
Buntline Hitch

 

[thinwater]

I would rather use dyneema line and connect the ends with a scaffold knot. Also self-assembly and possibly less money for the same strength.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Dyneema is weakened more than other lines by knots, and nearly all of them slip at high load. That is probably less than 50% strength.

The correct and accepted method is splicing and lashings. But if chafe and World Sailing rules are considered, that is a longer discussion.

 

[thinwater]

I suppose there must be some history to this 'corrosion under plastic' story. I replaced a pair of guardwires that were about 15 years old and found no corrosion whatsoever despite several cracks and splits in the plastic. I fitted the same again. Mine have a mixture of Sta-lok and Norseman end fittings, not very convenient but plenty of spare cones.

I too had one snap (line wrapped around it). It was more than 75% gone under the cover.