ODL
New Member
Could you elaborate? thanks!
Seized Volvo Penta 2001
- Thread starter ODL
- Start date
Could you elaborate? thanks!
pvb
Well-Known Member
You've said this was to be your first boat purchase. Don't know how practical you are, but I'd guess you haven't done a lot of work on boat engines. Re-engining a boat is a big job, and is one which many experienced boat DIY-ers would still approach with caution. Getting a marine engineer to do it for you will cost a lot, and you'll find that the job will grow in price as things are discovered which also need replacing. As a result, I'd suggest you ask an engine dealer to give you a guaranteed, maximum, fixed, all-in price for supplying and fitting a new engine and associated shaft/prop/bearings/etc. Then see how that compares with whatever price reduction you're offered. Having a new, properly fitted engine will enhance the value of the boat, but not by much.
By the way, is this the boat at Woolverstone?
By the way, is this the boat at Woolverstone?
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
Is the boat you are thinking of buying the one in Woolverstone marina? Looks OK in the pics. On the economics of re-engining - on this type of old boat where the market price is around£10k, a new engine represents 35-40% of its value. On a bigger, more modern boat, say a Sadler 29 it is around 20% and something like a Moody 37 it is 10-12%.
Having said that I have re-engined the same boat twice - also lowish value, but I have had it 30 years and intend keeping "forever" - which is why the Nanni replaced the Yanmar.
If you don't mind the work and you can get the Contessa for say, £7k then putting a SH Yanmar in and selling the Volvo could be a good deal. Things to check on the Yanmar are the gearbox ratio as there are 3 different boxes. You need to check that you can swing the right size prop for the ratio of box. The external oil pipes that run under the engine can corrode without you noticing and deposit oil in the bilge - seized engine. The most vulnerable one is under the water pump. The pump itself is marginal. You need to replace the impeller regularly - a Speedseal is useful here as removing the standard cover is a PITA. The seals can fail leading to water dripping on the pipe. The whole area is badly designed with a cocktail of metals - bronze, aluminium and mild steel. However, once you are aware of the weakness and keep an eye on it they are OK. The water hoses are small diameter and clog up, particularly the bypass hose. The exhaust elbow and water injection gives trouble for some as the inner sleeve corrodes. Essential to have an anti syphon valve fitted. The fuel filter is difficult to undo and reseal properly. As the engine is seawater cooled it has an anode in the water jacket.
The engine moves around a lot on its mounts so you need to have good mounts which are expensive and a flexible coupling. worth replacing the stuffing box with a Volvo seal. The electrics can be tricky as there is a multi pin connector in the loom that suffers from corrosion leading to poor connections. Lack of a panel is a problem as I expect a new one will be pricy, similarly a genuine Yanmar alternator is expensive, but alternatives are available - there is a link in a recent thread to an alternative supplier.
Sorry if it sounds like a disaster story, but once you recognise its foibles it is an excellent engine - far superior to the Volvo and still a current model so good spares availability. I had excellent service out of mine over the 17 years I had it and it is still going strong in a GK 24.
Hope this helps
Having said that I have re-engined the same boat twice - also lowish value, but I have had it 30 years and intend keeping "forever" - which is why the Nanni replaced the Yanmar.
If you don't mind the work and you can get the Contessa for say, £7k then putting a SH Yanmar in and selling the Volvo could be a good deal. Things to check on the Yanmar are the gearbox ratio as there are 3 different boxes. You need to check that you can swing the right size prop for the ratio of box. The external oil pipes that run under the engine can corrode without you noticing and deposit oil in the bilge - seized engine. The most vulnerable one is under the water pump. The pump itself is marginal. You need to replace the impeller regularly - a Speedseal is useful here as removing the standard cover is a PITA. The seals can fail leading to water dripping on the pipe. The whole area is badly designed with a cocktail of metals - bronze, aluminium and mild steel. However, once you are aware of the weakness and keep an eye on it they are OK. The water hoses are small diameter and clog up, particularly the bypass hose. The exhaust elbow and water injection gives trouble for some as the inner sleeve corrodes. Essential to have an anti syphon valve fitted. The fuel filter is difficult to undo and reseal properly. As the engine is seawater cooled it has an anode in the water jacket.
The engine moves around a lot on its mounts so you need to have good mounts which are expensive and a flexible coupling. worth replacing the stuffing box with a Volvo seal. The electrics can be tricky as there is a multi pin connector in the loom that suffers from corrosion leading to poor connections. Lack of a panel is a problem as I expect a new one will be pricy, similarly a genuine Yanmar alternator is expensive, but alternatives are available - there is a link in a recent thread to an alternative supplier.
Sorry if it sounds like a disaster story, but once you recognise its foibles it is an excellent engine - far superior to the Volvo and still a current model so good spares availability. I had excellent service out of mine over the 17 years I had it and it is still going strong in a GK 24.
Hope this helps
ODL
New Member
I would not like to implement anyone involved in this sale, such that my response to the boat's location is no comment.
But I must commend you both on a keen eye for observation and quick-witted deduction...
I feel much better informed today and more confident in making a rational decision on the owner's counter-offer. Following an other-wise commendable survey I had got a little caught up in the excitement of completing the sale - no bad thing, but am now a lot more grounded by the reality of the seized engine.
Tranona, I may make a closer inspection of this Yanmar and report on what I find. If you'd be interested to take a look, the chap has listed it on eBay for 900.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yanmar-1gm10-...ineParts_SM&hash=item1e5d68c960#ht_500wt_1154
But I must commend you both on a keen eye for observation and quick-witted deduction...
I feel much better informed today and more confident in making a rational decision on the owner's counter-offer. Following an other-wise commendable survey I had got a little caught up in the excitement of completing the sale - no bad thing, but am now a lot more grounded by the reality of the seized engine.
Tranona, I may make a closer inspection of this Yanmar and report on what I find. If you'd be interested to take a look, the chap has listed it on eBay for 900.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yanmar-1gm10-...ineParts_SM&hash=item1e5d68c960#ht_500wt_1154
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Goods not as described. No doofer, no dosh. Seemples!
Would you part with cash for a car that doesnt start on the promise of getting it fixed after you paid for it?
Would you part with cash for a car that doesnt start on the promise of getting it fixed after you paid for it?
bendyone
Well-Known Member
Thats "Joe" of this parish
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is probably too much money given the missing parts. Mounts are £200 a set, alternator at least £130 for a SH or recon (£300+ for a Yanmar). The panel is not an "easy job". My £1200 sale included all the installation bits, controls, exhaust, coupling and shaft + prop. The one on offer would be OK if you already had one but the basic engine was knackered, but think you will probably spend the thick end of £1k getting it installed.
Plus point is that it has not run in salt water.
Leonidas
Well-Known Member
I Fully agree with this approach, unless there is a substantial discount. The seller has not exactly been too transparent with his description of the item he is selling. If he was aware of the condition of the engine he should have made it clear and adjusted the price accordingly. What else has been "omitted" ?
MoodySabre
Well-Known Member
I would look for a whole one being sold by the owner and not some bits being sold on by a boatmender.
ODL
New Member
Update.
Email from broker today: owner still deliberating.
This response comes five days after the owner 'learned', by way of the local Volvo eng., that the engine is seized.
I took the broker's advice and demanded a 3.5k price drop in return for which I would accept boat as is, where is.
As per the clauses attached to my offer the engine must be running upon launch with no defects/faults/alarms.
I can only think of two reasons that the owner is taking his sweet time.
1. As his ownership draws to a close he is now in the position to review his tenure, take stock of decisions made, and try to rationalise the (seemingly extortionate from the receipts I have seen) cost of it all.
2. He is desperately trying to find an engineer to start the engine at minimum expense.
In this case I imagine that it is a numbers game in which one (1) thing leads to another (2)...
Is it common for this part of the sale to drag on for several weeks?
Email from broker today: owner still deliberating.
This response comes five days after the owner 'learned', by way of the local Volvo eng., that the engine is seized.
I took the broker's advice and demanded a 3.5k price drop in return for which I would accept boat as is, where is.
As per the clauses attached to my offer the engine must be running upon launch with no defects/faults/alarms.
I can only think of two reasons that the owner is taking his sweet time.
1. As his ownership draws to a close he is now in the position to review his tenure, take stock of decisions made, and try to rationalise the (seemingly extortionate from the receipts I have seen) cost of it all.
2. He is desperately trying to find an engineer to start the engine at minimum expense.
In this case I imagine that it is a numbers game in which one (1) thing leads to another (2)...
Is it common for this part of the sale to drag on for several weeks?
ODL
New Member
Yes, I agree, in fact now that the sale is starting to drag I am taking a much broader view.
The failings of the owner and broker to accurately describe the boat, both in print and during the viewing, seem to amount to a duplicity that I have not encountered before. This was compounded by my lack of experience and regrettably not seeking counsel before making an offer.
Along with my initial enthusiasm, my 'positive', 'achieve my goals at all odds', approach is being tempered by a healthy dose of rational thinking and planning at this stage.
Pete7
Well-Known Member
ODL, if you do go ahead, this might be an option. Volvo 2001 half way down the page.
http://www.chertseymeadsmarine.co.uk/engines.html
Pete
http://www.chertseymeadsmarine.co.uk/engines.html
Pete
ODL
New Member
Pete: link received with thanks. You certainly trumped Google in locating this engine.
Remarkably it is not far from home and I shall go and take a look in the morning.
Remarkably it is not far from home and I shall go and take a look in the morning.
