Seized seacock; tips to release?

yodave said:
Just to recap further to vyv_cox's comment, I'm concerned about the seacock material if it's brass. If it's simply a matter of unscrewing the seacock and rescrewing in a replacement that seems like the sensible thing to do. What I'm less keen on is tampering with the skin fitting as that seems a little more challenging (for the likes of me). While I'm at it I might as well upgrade the hose to a reinforced version as advised by Andrew G. Any further advice on what's required in terms of the process of replacement would be really useful.
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Until quite recently DZR skin fittings and hose tails were pretty much unobtainable. That situation has been redressed by ASAP, who now sell what appear to be nicely made ones. The reality is that although it is the valves that most people associate with dezincification it is more often one of the other parts that fails. There are many examples on my website under Metallurgy>brass and bronze. If you intend to update your fittings I suggest you change all parts. It is not technically difficult to do so and there is lots of advice available in previous threads, or ask again if you need to.
 
yodave said:
I'll now need to understand what needs replacing. Is it the seacock and the skin fitting, or is it just a matter of unscrewing the seacock and rescrewing on a replacement?
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Have a read of this thread, I posted some pictures of a failed skin fitting there - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...cked/page3&highlight=when+to+replace+seacocks

If, when you remove the seacock from the skin fitting, the skin fitting threads have any pink color then it certainly needs replacing. For the extra cost, if it's fairly old then I would replace it anyway.
 
If it hasnt been suggested yet, change it. Cut it off and replace it with new. Its what stands between you and a possible sinking.
 
Folks. The OP in #20 has acknowledged our suggestions and is going to remove it - but how? My quick list is:
. Cut the crapy solid hose with a very sharp knife about 60mm from its end (you can remove and discard the jubilee clip -you'll be replacing that WITH TWO).
. With one spanner hold the nut holding the skin fitting (you don't want either to turn) you will be pushing the spanner R to L (clockwise).
. With another spanner located on the hexagonal at the top of the ball valve turn the ball valve, spanner L to R (anti clockwise) without the skin fitting or it's nut turning.
. After a turn or so it should turn off by hand.
. You'll need to inspect the skin fitting and seacock to see if they should be replaced (as I suggested in #17 I would).
. To remove the skin fitting turn the spanner on the nut L to R. If the fitting turns there may be slots in it that an outside person can hold with two screwdrivers to stop it turning. Failing that multigrips or even a pipe wrench on the thread but don't be too brutal.
OK? Andrew
 
We reconnected a short length of pipe and kept pouring boiling water down -- gradually it started to move by wiggling, fractions at a time. Bit-by-bit the movement increased until full movement was restored. We have found they seize more if left open when the boat is moored -- exercising them regularly is essential especially if there is any pitting/scratching from previous occasions.
 
Andrew G said:
Folks. The OP in #20 has acknowledged our suggestions and is going to remove it - but how? My quick list is:
. Cut the crapy solid hose with a very sharp knife about 60mm from its end (you can remove and discard the jubilee clip -you'll be replacing that WITH TWO).
. With one spanner hold the nut holding the skin fitting (you don't want either to turn) you will be pushing the spanner R to L (clockwise).
. With another spanner located on the hexagonal at the top of the ball valve turn the ball valve, spanner L to R (anti clockwise) without the skin fitting or it's nut turning.
. After a turn or so it should turn off by hand.
. You'll need to inspect the skin fitting and seacock to see if they should be replaced (as I suggested in #17 I would).
. To remove the skin fitting turn the spanner on the nut L to R. If the fitting turns there may be slots in it that an outside person can hold with two screwdrivers to stop it turning. Failing that multigrips or even a pipe wrench on the thread but don't be too brutal.
OK? Andrew
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Much easier if he is going to do as suggested and change the skin fitting to grind off the outside flange and pull the whole lot out from inside the boat. Much less swearing and bruised knuckles!
 
Andrew G said:
-you'll be replacing that WITH TWO).
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Why? Yet another old wives theory that doesn't hold water (:D) when examined sensibly. How many people have witnesses a hose coming off their skin fittings because there was only one clip on it? There must be billions of hose clips around the world, holding huge pressures by comparison with a few inches head of water, and they don't fail. I have heard of far more cases of the fitting snapping due to dezincification than I have of hoses inadvertently coming off hose tails.
 
vyv_cox said:
Why? Yet another old wives theory that doesn't hold water (:D) when examined sensibly. How many people have witnesses a hose coming off their skin fittings because there was only one clip on it? There must be billions of hose clips around the world, holding huge pressures by comparison with a few inches head of water, and they don't fail. I have heard of far more cases of the fitting snapping due to dezincification than I have of hoses inadvertently coming off hose tails.
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It's the rare events we need to protect from. The common hazards are easy to see and protect from. Redundancy is a great defence as is a good maintenance regime. Sure dezincification is a hugely bigger risk (thanks for the info on your excellent website).

If the chance of the boat sinking from a single hose failing and falling off or a loose object knocking the hose off is 1 per 100,000 boats per year (wild guess) then what is it with two? 1 per 10,000,000,000. A huge improvement for little cost.
 
BigEmUp said:
If the chance of the boat sinking from a single hose failing and falling off or a loose object knocking the hose off is 1 per 100,000 boats per year (wild guess) then what is it with two? 1 per 10,000,000,000. A huge improvement for little cost.
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Not at all sure about your wild guesses though. I can count at least 12 on my engine, none of them doubled up, with an internal pressure of 12 psi. None of them have ever fallen off, nor the ones on the many cars I have owned. The only hose failures I have ever had were in the hose itself near to the hose clip, in each case the result of old age and fatigue. Two clips would not have helped at all.

I think a hose clip is a remarkably successful idea that works perfectly in billions of applications. So if the odds against accidental loss when used singly are 1:1,000,000,000 in all applications, how much can doubling up add? Statistically not measurable.
 
Thanks once again for all of the additional information - that's a really big help.

AdrianPetts: From what I remember of the old penny in a glass of coca-cola trick there's every chance that your suggestion would work (thanks), but I've decided that I really should replace the fittings. vyv_cox: Thanks very much for the link on your really useful website. The descriptions and images have given me a really good understanding of what I'm looking for when I'm hanging upside down in the engine bay. GrahamM376: I've had a look at the link thanks - that's quite hair-raising stuff. On your pic, the pink looks as though it's mainly inside, with the exterior looking in better condition ...as though it has been rotting from the inside. galadriel: thanks, yes I'm replacing both of the seacocks in question. Andrew G: I really appreciate the step-by-step narrative - thank you. I'll print this and some of the other comments out and take them with me when I do the job. Tranona: I really like the idea of saving time and knuckles (thank you), but I'm not so sure my grinding skills are up to avoiding my gelcoat. Omega 2; thanks for your advice and the link to the Crane valves.

Thanks once again to everyone for your advice, feedback and support; I really appreciate it ...not forgetting Scotty_Tradewind, GandJ, and BigEmUp.

: )
 
vyv_cox said:
Not at all sure about your wild guesses though. I can count at least 12 on my engine, none of them doubled up, with an internal pressure of 12 psi. None of them have ever fallen off, nor the ones on the many cars I have owned. The only hose failures I have ever had were in the hose itself near to the hose clip, in each case the result of old age and fatigue. Two clips would not have helped at all.

I think a hose clip is a remarkably successful idea that works perfectly in billions of applications. So if the odds against accidental loss when used singly are 1:1,000,000,000 in all applications, how much can doubling up add? Statistically not measurable.
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Yes..... the one place where I would thoroughly recommend two either side is with the stern gland.

A few weeks after purchasing my Twister years ago, I was having a day sail/motor with a pal as crew and he suddenly noticed

water over the sole in the saloon.

We were motoring away with the stern gland having come away from one end.

Happily I have always carried a comprehensive tool kit and I was in those days flexible enough. with my slight frame. to hang

upside down behind the engine to pull the whole lot together again whilst crew pumped the bilges like mad.

S.
 
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Scotty_Tradewind said:
Yes..... the one place where I would thoroughly recommend two either side is with the stern gland.

A few weeks after purchasing my Twister years ago, I was having a day sail/motor with a pal as crew and he suddenly noticed

water over the sole in the saloon.

We were motoring away with the stern gland having come away from one end.

Happily I have always carried a comprehensive tool kit and I was in those days flexible enough. with my slight frame. to hang

upside down behind the engine to pull the whole lot together again whilst crew pumped the bilges like mad.

S.
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I've had failures too. Hose clamp rusting on a deck drain, causing a loss of tension and drip inside the boat. Broke my AIS. Worst was a broken exhaust hose clamp I caught before the hose blew off. Might not have as it was on tight, but might just have given time if I hadn't dealt with it. Several other imminent failure of rusting clamp threads have been dealt with before failure (now changed to all A4 stainless instead of part galv or part A2 clamps). They do rust and fail if seawater gets near.

My hoses are pretty tight on and unlikely to fail, but one day when the clamp failure coincides with a hose split (and it will probably split at the clamp area) then the chance of disaster goes up substantially. If you believe the chance of a hose falling off is near zero, then do nothing. If you believe it is an identifiable risk then for not many quid you can double up over most of the boat. For me with no desire to take unnecessary risks it is a good value for money investment.
 
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