Seized piston rings I think, any liquid mixes to help free them

[PaulRainbow]

Remind me not to let you touch my Riley engine if ever I can afford to own one!

You mean you don't have another spare 100k kicking around ?

 

[Tranona]

You mean you don't have another spare 100k kicking around ?

As it happens, yes, I do, but there are only so many toys you can play with at any one time. As I said earlier I have a Morgan to satisfy my need for some sort of 1930's experience. The Riley I would want would cost between 2 and 3 times what my Morgan is worth and not sure I would derive that much extra pleasure from owning one with all the work needed to keep it running.

Quite happy to let others own them and for me to look at them, just like wooden boats.

 

[Tranona]

And you need to recognise that people can make a head gasket using simple tools or re use ones using modern jointing compounds which was the point I was making because of one of the original concerns of the OP
An apology for your personal insult wouldnt go amiss either.
Stu

Never said you can't - just not a good course of action in this case, for all the reasons previously stated.

Have reread everything I have written and fail to see any insults. I have only corrected your lack of knowledge about this particular engine which is at the root of the misunderstanding about how best to proceed.

Best let it rest there.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Remind me not to let you touch my Riley engine if ever I can afford to own one!

You mean you don't have another spare 100k kicking around ?

As it happens, yes, I do, but there are only so many toys you can play with at any one time.

Erm..... which is it ?

 

[Neil_Y]

ACF-50 worked for an old 2 stroke outboard.

 

[Heckler]

Never said you can't - just not a good course of action in this case, for all the reasons previously stated.

Have reread everything I have written and fail to see any insults. I have only corrected your lack of knowledge about this particular engine which is at the root of the misunderstanding about how best to proceed.

Best let it rest there.

No lack of knowledge on my part, only on yours for failing to understand and accept a point made that differs from your, as usual, entrenched position.
People can and do make gaskets by hand.
Successfully!
Stu

 

[Heckler]

Erm..... which is it ?

Hee hee!
S

 

[PaulRainbow]

No lack of knowledge on my part, only on yours for failing to understand and accept a point made that differs from your, as usual, entrenched position.
People can and do make gaskets by hand.
Successfully!
Stu

Them that can, do.
Them that can't, teach.

 

[Heckler]

I am afraid that is all incorrect. The engine does have push rods - 4 either side. Two camshafts high in the block. This enables hemispherical combustion chambers (as I said earlier) without OHC. (Anybody with experience of Nuffield -MG etc OHC engines of the period like my Wolseley Hornet will know how difficult it was to make OHC work) The two camshafts are driven by a huge gear set at the front of the block and the valves are operated by push rods. Rocker boxes either side on top of the head. So the head face looks like a bit of Swiss cheese with coolant holes, oil feeds and pushrod holes. Very different from a simple flat head engine.

I have in front of me (as I said earlier) a cutaway of the engine plus a contemporary article (c1936 - the engine was first produced in 1928/9) on stripping and rebuilding the engine. Plus, in my youth I helped rebuild a 1500cc (12hp) version of the same basic design which raced quite successfully until it put a rod through the side.

So please, in this instance recognise that I probably know far more about this subject than you do!

Do you have a link to the 1500cc engine you refer to?
S

 

[Heckler]

Them that can, do.
Them that can't, teach.

And them that cant teach retire early on pensions that we have to pay for!
Stu

 

[lw395]

The Riley engine is much more complicated than a side valve Meadows engine. It was way ahead of its time with hemispherical combustion chambers and angled valves operated by two camshafts high in the block. Externally looks like a modern DOHC engine. The basic design layout was used in a whole range of Riley derived engines including the very successful ERA racing cars. The 9hp is relatively low power, but like the bigger versions a sophisticated bit of kit and needs careful dismantling and putting back together properly before attempting to start it - not least because doing damage will seriously hurt its value.

That's much like a common or garden Triumph twin.
Sometimes their gaskets are copper and can be annealed for re-use.
But I guess the Riley would be water cooled which makes the gasket much more complex.

 

[Heckler]

Them that can, do.
Them that can't, teach.

That's much like a common or garden Triumph twin.
Sometimes their gaskets are copper and can be annealed for re-use.
But I guess the Riley would be water cooled which makes the gasket much more complex.

Not arguing! The Triumph twins, all alloy Tiger 100 (wish I still had that) Triton with pre unit construction Bonneville engine, BSA Super Rocket, which I owned as a youth, all had solid copper gaskets and that is what we used to do, anneal them.
Stu

 

[No Regrets]

We are looking at suspected stuck rings, so all the posturing about Camshafts and stuff is wanton drivel.

If the rings are stuck and have been for decades, then it's going to need a bit more than WD40.

Pop off the sump, get the crank and pistons out and have a look. Never mind the head gasket.

Snake oil methods are not going to be good, the engine will Smoke like an A4 Pacific unless sound.

 

[RichardS]

We are looking at suspected stuck rings, so all the posturing about Camshafts and stuff is wanton drivel.

If the rings are stuck and have been for decades, then it's going to need a bit more than WD40.

Pop off the sump, get the crank and pistons out and have a look. Never mind the head gasket.

Snake oil methods are not going to be good, the engine will Smoke like an A4 Pacific unless sound.

Good grief.

With most engines I've worked on if you'd trying to remove the crankshaft with the engine in-situ then removing the head would be a walk in the park in comparision.

Richard

 

[No Regrets]

Sump gasket easy to replace...

 

[Heckler]

We are looking at suspected stuck rings, so all the posturing about Camshafts and stuff is wanton drivel.

If the rings are stuck and have been for decades, then it's going to need a bit more than WD40.

Pop off the sump, get the crank and pistons out and have a look. Never mind the head gasket.

Snake oil methods are not going to be good, the engine will Smoke like an A4 Pacific unless sound.

Agree with the camshaft bit but normally the head comes off, sump off, big ends undone and rod an piston comes out through the top. In the olden days of long stroke engines it was relatively normal to have a rebore every other year with it being done in situ doing what I said above.
Doing it your way how do you take the clutch, flywheel etc off?
Stu

 

[RichardS]

Doing it your way how do you take the clutch, flywheel etc off?
Stu

As I said in #54 Stu ..... heads are a walk in the park compared to that lot. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[Heckler]

As I said in #54 Stu ..... heads are a walk in the park compared to that lot. :encouragement:

Richard

I know, first car I had was an Austin A40, 1947 vintage! A piston went on it so we whipped the head off first, then the sump, in my mates back garden, lying on our backs in the mud was fun but we got the rod and piston out and a "new" piston back in. We re used the old head gasket with plenty of "Stag" dont forget we were apprentice fitters in the pit in those days, Stag was that red gloop we used to seal the high pressure steam engine that powered the winding gear. Good enough for pressure and heat in a hot steam joint, good enough for a crude head gasket in an early "A" series engine!
Stu

 

[RichardS]

I know, first car I had was an Austin A40, 1947 vintage! A piston went on it so we whipped the head off first, then the sump, in my mates back garden, lying on our backs in the mud was fun but we got the rod and piston out and a "new" piston back in. We re used the old head gasket with plenty of "Stag" dont forget we were apprentice fitters in the pit in those days, Stag was that red gloop we used to seal the high pressure steam engine that powered the winding gear. Good enough for pressure and heat in a hot steam joint, good enough for a crude head gasket in an early "A" series engine!
Stu

I've read accounts of some engines where it's supposedly possible to get the conrod and piston out downwards with the crankshaft still in place but I don't think there would be enough clearance in any of the engines I've stripped. No Regrets is not suggesting that, of course, and it's probably not possible on the Riley engine.

Richard

 

[Heckler]

I've read accounts of some engines where it's supposedly possible to get the conrod and piston out downwards with the crankshaft still in place but I don't think there would be enough clearance in any of the engines I've stripped. No Regrets is not suggesting that, of course, and it's probably not possible on the Riley engine.

Richard

I rebuilt a Ricardo Pelapone diesel engine in a blast furnace loader, the strangest beast you have ever seen, 3 wheeled with a long rotating pole on the front to shove in to the furnace. There was a bucket on the fron which they used to load with additives to adjust the mix.
I digress, The engine had side doors through which you could access the big ends and rods. The drill was take the caps off, lower the rod and piston with the crank rotated to one side to allow the assembly to come out through the door. It was a bit difficult holding the rings compressed to get the piston back in to the bottom of the cylinder!
So, yes some engines can be done like that but that was the only one in my career that I ever came across. EMD ships engines were another story however. I will get a link to them in a min.
Stu