Seeking registration advice

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Sunjammer

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I'm in the process of buying a sailing boat in Northern Ireland and will move it to a permanent berth in Co Cork. I feel I've a good handle on the Customs implications and what is needed to prove location of the boat on the Brexit date. What I'm not clear on is such details as registry, VHF licence, sail numbers etc.
About me: UK passport holder but permanently resident in Co Cork, Ireland.
The boat: Has been kept and maintained in NI since new (14 years.) Registered on UK registry (although this has lapsed some years ago) UK VHF licence and UK sail numbers.

Registration: There is no small boat registry in Ireland. As far as I can make out I could continue (or apply?) for UK registration on the basis of my nationality provided I have someone in the UK who could act as agent / letterbox. I do have relations who would, I'm sure, love to be my agent!
Does it matter, should I bother? As far as I can tell, registration doesn't really matter if I'm only going to use the boat in UK and Irish waters but other EU countries can be suspicious of an unregistered boat.

VHF licence: Logically I had thought - the licence goes with the boat and so, if the boat is mainly going to be used in Irish waters (it is) then an Irish VHF licence should be sought and this would tie in with my operators licence which is issued by the Irish authorities. Does that change if I chose to be on the UK register?

Sail numbers: Although I'm not planning to race initially, I may do and I always believe optionality adds value. Do I remove the UK numbers and apply for Irish ones?

On top of all this, I'd like to change the name of the boat but am concerned about the implications and also the timing - before I move it or after it's reached it's new home?

I'm trying to ensure that any decisions I make now don't have a detrimental effect on the value of the boat when I come to sell it.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
 
You do need registration if you go outside UK waters - even just across the Eire border. Thus either get UK SSR or Part I, and keep radio licence, sail number etc as UK. If you do base permanently in Cork you will be required to pay VAT - even if the boat is already UK VAT-paid. That assumes the Irish Customs know about this.

From the eventual sale point of view there is a bigger pool of buyers in the UK than in Eire, and they won't be keen on paying VAT (for the third time) to buy it back from Eire.
 
jwilson said:
You do need registration if you go outside UK waters - even just across the Eire border. Thus either get UK SSR or Part I, and keep radio licence, sail number etc as UK. If you do base permanently in Cork you will be required to pay VAT - even if the boat is already UK VAT-paid. That assumes the Irish Customs know about this.

From the eventual sale point of view there is a bigger pool of buyers in the UK than in Eire, and they won't be keen on paying VAT (for the third time) to buy it back from Eire.
Click to expand...
Not sure about the VAT point (and don’t think HMRC are any clearer themselves). AFAIK, and uniquely, a boat in NI on 31/12/20 was still in the EU customs area so retained EU VAT status — as well as UK VAT status. I am no legal expert, but that is what I understood - as had considered moving my boat to NI for that date, before another Covid lockdown scuppered that.
I assume the OP has investigated that and come to own conclusions - as stated in sentence 2 of post #1.

One thing if move off UK registry to Irish flag (but not registered) this would mean changing the ships radio licence to Ireland - and as country code is embedded in the radio MMSI, this would need to change. Changing the MMSI often means the need to send the VHF to manufacturer or agent to get reprogrammed. Ditto AIS transceiver if fitted. So this could be a slight hassle if reflag.
If UK passport, I might be inclined to put on UK SSR (recognising need for a UK address). On the other hand an Irish flag might reduce any interest in paperwork later if cruising to France etc (but this would necessitate some form of registration).

I doubt there would be any issue about sail numbers for racing. Plenty of UK owned race boats bought previously from Ireland race here with IRL numbers (or other national numbers), and suspect plenty race with GBR numbers at Cork. Bit different if racing an Olympic Class at a formal international event, but don’t see it an issue for yacht racing.
 
As far as I know SSR is not so straightforward any more - a relative or friends address is not enough. You need a bank account in your name at the registered address.
UK Part 1 is the way to go. Not onerous or complicated apart from the tonnage survey and radio licence can be sorted online with Ofcom in minutes. ROI registration is more complicated and radio license is a hassle.
 
Irish Registration is similar to UK Part 1 - as has been said their is no Irish equivalent to SSR. No deregistration is required if on UK SSR but is required, if still on the registry, for Part 1. I'd be tempted to leave well alone and just enjoy your boat!
 
Sunjammer said:
I'm in the process of buying a sailing boat in Northern Ireland and will move it to a permanent berth in Co Cork. I feel I've a good handle on the Customs implications and what is needed to prove location of the boat on the Brexit date. What I'm not clear on is such details as registry, VHF licence, sail numbers etc.
About me: UK passport holder but permanently resident in Co Cork, Ireland.
The boat: Has been kept and maintained in NI since new (14 years.) Registered on UK registry (although this has lapsed some years ago) UK VHF licence and UK sail numbers.

Registration: There is no small boat registry in Ireland. As far as I can make out I could continue (or apply?) for UK registration on the basis of my nationality provided I have someone in the UK who could act as agent / letterbox. I do have relations who would, I'm sure, love to be my agent!
Does it matter, should I bother? As far as I can tell, registration doesn't really matter if I'm only going to use the boat in UK and Irish waters but other EU countries can be suspicious of an unregistered boat.

VHF licence: Logically I had thought - the licence goes with the boat and so, if the boat is mainly going to be used in Irish waters (it is) then an Irish VHF licence should be sought and this would tie in with my operators licence which is issued by the Irish authorities. Does that change if I chose to be on the UK register?

Sail numbers: Although I'm not planning to race initially, I may do and I always believe optionality adds value. Do I remove the UK numbers and apply for Irish ones?

On top of all this, I'd like to change the name of the boat but am concerned about the implications and also the timing - before I move it or after it's reached it's new home?

I'm trying to ensure that any decisions I make now don't have a detrimental effect on the value of the boat when I come to sell it.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Click to expand...
You really need to decide if you want to sail an Irish boat with a tricolour on the back, and all of the paperwork in order. or some sort of a mutant.

Then you need to establish if you are entitled to do what you want to do.

Our vhf regime is a pain. Get VHF licence (personal) then get a licence for the boat, which gives you the MMSI and call sign.

If you already have a UK licence you might just have to do an upgrade course, I had to do the upgrade to fit a DSC radio... And I was tested by the Department in use of a DSC...I successfully lifted the red cover and pressed the red button.

There is no Small ships register here. But you can put it on the proper Register. The process is relatively simple although often misunderstood. (I am currently doing it after years of believing to to be very complex) .

It's kind of a 3 step process, 1. Reserve the name. 2. Apply for a tonnage survey 165euros. All of the people involved seem to be very helpful and so far all has gone very efficiently.

Take this cert and proof of ownership history and deregistration to the Registrar of Shipping. Pay some more money, 201 euros, job done..

Go to chandlery buy tricolour and sail your boat in peace knowing all paperwork is in order.

Reading the letter from revenue they also require proof of being an EU citizen ) edit..I looked up the legislation and a UK citizen can still register a boat here. There is an SI which makes it a reciprocating state, which is revoked by the 2014 Registration of Shipping Act, but this has not been commenced)

Realistically no one here will care but I'd rather not go to The UK or France without having my paperwork in order thus my decision to do all of the paperwork after 15 years of ownership...

More info here regarding vat.

Boats and Brexit
 
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pandos said:
You really need to decide if you want to sail an Irish boat with a tricolour on the back, and all of the paperwork in order. or some sort of a mutant.

Then you need to establish if you are entitled to do what you want to do.

Our vhf regime is a pain. Get VHF licence (personal) then get a licence for the boat, which gives you the MMSI and call sign.

If you already have a UK licence you might just have to do an upgrade course, I had to do the upgrade to fit a DSC radio... And I was tested by the Department in use of a DSC...I successfully lifted the red cover and pressed the red button.

There is no Small ships register here. But you can put it on the proper Register. The process is relatively simple although often misunderstood. (I am currently doing it after years of believing to to be very complex) .

It's kind of a 3 step process, 1. Reserve the name. 2. Apply for a tonnage survey 165euros. All of the people involved seem to be very helpful and so far all has gone very efficiently.

Take this cert and proof of ownership history and deregistration to the Registrar of Shipping. Pay some more money, 201 euros, job done..

Go to chandlery buy tricolour and sail your boat in peace knowing all paperwork is in order.

Reading the letter from revenue they also require proof of being an EU citizen....(if you search on here, a few years ago I posted a link to an part of legislation that had not been commenced at that time, which would exclude UK citizens from the right to register an Irish ship, this may have been commenced since or maybe Revenue are incorrect)

Realistically no one here will care but I'd rather not go to The UK or France without having my paperwork in order thus my decision to do all of the paperwork after 15 years of ownership...
Click to expand...
Congratulations on getting the Tricolour. I did I 12 years ago remotely from Turkey and everyone involved was very helpful and accommodating. It's definitely not as easy as the UK one stop shop system though (or Jersey which I also did) and, as I said, you can sort your radio licence, epirb, pld, etc online with Ofcom in a few minutes whereas the Irish system is unwieldy.
 
Irish Rover said:
Congratulations on getting the Tricolour. I did I 12 years ago remotely from Turkey and everyone involved was very helpful and accommodating. It's definitely not as easy as the UK one stop shop system though (or Jersey which I also did) and, as I said, you can sort your radio licence, epirb, pld, etc online with Ofcom in a few minutes whereas the Irish system is unwieldy.
Click to expand...
Did you have to take a radio operator's certificate test in Ireland?
 
Thanks for all the replies, my preference is for an Irish boat with a tricolour on the back and all the paperwork sorted. The alternative, mutant (good description, Pandos!) is always likely to come back and bite you in the future.
 
Irish Rover said:
Congratulations on getting the Tricolour. I did I 12 years ago remotely from Turkey and everyone involved was very helpful and accommodating. It's definitely not as easy as the UK one stop shop system though (or Jersey which I also did) and, as I said, you can sort your radio licence, epirb, pld, etc online with Ofcom in a few minutes whereas the Irish system is unwieldy.
Click to expand...
The PLB system here is online and is not related to the boat or even the Department of transport. It's done through Comm Reg.. total cost of boat registration is 366 Euros
 
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