Seedcorn falling on Stony ground

[brianhumber]

Having along with most of the companies staff, watched the Concordes fly past on Friday afternoon, I thought yet another example of a first class intial development chucked away by our nation to wither and die.
Concorde was bascially a 50s design, look at the size of the 50s Comet and 707 to the development of Airbus and Jumbo, but no similar effort for Concorde
Jump jets same again
Hovercraft same again
APT same again
In shipbuilding we have given up
Sigmas, Westerlies same again
My own yacht a Sadler Baraccuda - another example, never really had the development bugs ironed out and made for production but I cannot find a better more exciting yacht to sail either safely with the wife pottering in shallow seas or tearing along at over 14kts leaving all the work stress behind.
Depressing really -still retirement beckons in a few a years as long as that Bastard Brown does not steal all my savings.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Plundered

Many of our ideas only fell on stoney ground at home. Thats why the Yanks are selling us our next generation Harrier. Could also be why Redjets come from OZ while Vospers are closing on the Itchen.

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[ParaHandy]

i had to laugh ... watched concorde coming in to land from a eurostar leaving waterloo and after a while an excited voice over the train's pa told everybody that the train's speed was now at it's maximum (184mph?) due to the opening of the high speed link in Kent ... dutch, french etc have been running trains at that speed for many years so much chortling from the french passengers ...

I think I prefer Concorde to stop with her head held high rather than the ignominious end which befell the comet.

crossing london on the underground on sunday evening, the jubilee line was running trains every 9 minutes (signal failure at green park), northern line not running .. the paris metro just trundles on and on and on .... and a journey anywhere costs 1 euro ..



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[Talbot]

You want something depressing - how about the story on page 29 of the Mail on Sunday about the plan to tax house sales at 40%. At least I have paid my mortgage, but like many people I intend to use the money from my larger house to pay for a smaller one plus retirement income.

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[Cornishman]

Re: Comet still flies.....

The only thing about the Comet's ignominous end was a change of name. It is now called Nimrod, and that distinctive shape flew over Cornwall only last week. She is beautiful because the engines are hidden into the wing roots, a style which went out with all other commercial airliners decades ago. I don't know the technical reason for the change, but there must have been one. Even Concorde's were underslung.
I flew in Comet 4c several times in 1966 between Cyprus and the UK. Some were in BEA colours and others in Olympic. When did they go out of civilian service?

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[snowleopard]

i think the CGT on houses story started in the telegraph. probably just a tory wind-up to frighten us off voting labour in again.

at least i hope so, it's just plausible enough that people would believe it! if they told 70% of the population they were going to take away their life savings they'd be out of power for a generation.

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[bedouin]

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the voting public.

This government has already effectively ensured an impoverished old age for a whole generation by their changes to pension law and pension taxation; and yet they are still in power.

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[Rowana]

Re: Comet still flies.....

We have Nimrod's up here in the Moray Firth as well, but it's not all that long ago (3-4 years I think) that we still had Shackelton's in service, and that was a development of the WW2 Lancaster.

Now there was a sight to see . . .

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[tome]

Re: Comet still flies.....

Hi Cornishman

I believe the change to underslung pods was a result of potential wing root damage if an engine disintegrated. Modern pods have shear pins which will detach the engine rather than the wing.

Tom

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.btconnect.com/Amaya/Amaya_Web1.htm>Cherbourg Data site</A>

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: Comet still flies.....

this is what happened to the Mk1 & 2 comets: in early 1954, after a series of inexplicable crashes, the whole fleet was grounded. they flew again until Apr when another crash occurred and the certif of airworthiness was withdrawn.

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[jonjo]

Re: Housing CGT tax, good.

I would support increased tax on house transactions for two reasons:

1 - You lot of retirement age have profited grossly from the post war house booms and the Thatcherite financial services meddling with its associated bubbles. My generation have been left with intractable demographic problems. Taxing housing capital gains is one means of sorting out the mess.

2 - The British expend too much productive effort and creativity on property development. This should be re-directed at international trade & commerce. If increase property taxation can return housing to its tradition role of a slowly depreciating assess the country will benefit in the long run.

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[poter]

Re: Housing CGT tax, good.

Yes I know this is a wind up but I will bite.....(just in case)

Us lot? by that I assume you are referring to a bunch of almost retired gentlefolk who were willing to succour you lot of ungrateful urchins who just want our money?

My pension has already been nicked, so anyone who wants to take away my life savings & thus prevents me from getting on my boat and pis**g off will most certainly be playing with fire.

By the by - If you are going to make such wildly inflationary & inaccurate statements you could at least get the spelling & syntax correct!

poter

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[brianhumber]

Re: Comet still flies.....

Concerns over disintegration yes but also modern jet engines are mainly fan bypass thrust engines with huge primary blades at the front. Difficult to integrate these into wing roots.

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[trevor_loveday]

The Treasury were discussing the idea of making up the Chancellor's shortfalls by introducing CGT on house sales but have backed out of it. Tony Blair has now confirmed this, but wouldn't rule out a rise in stamp duty. Watch this space.

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[Cornishman]

Re: Comet still flies.....

Absolutely ..we sent you the Shacks from St Mawgan and eventually, as you say, they were replaced by the Nimrods. Oh, the roar of those RR piston engines, how we miss them.
Thanks to everybody else for the explanations for the end of wing root engines. Gives the lie to the old saying 'if it looks right, it probably IS right'.
As for the CGT on houses, yes it probably was a wind up, but the extra RFL for Chelsea Tractors being considered by Father Brown certainly is not. Glad I drive a 1.9 diesel Skoda!

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[jonjo]

Re: Housing CGT tax, good.

> Us lot? by that I assume you are referring to a bunch of almost
> retired gentlefolk

Yes and those up to 75 years of age, I think these groups collectively account for 50% of the Scuttlebutt population.

I suppose there is much to feel aggrieved about if you are approaching retirement just now particularly when a direct comparison is made with those who retired in the previous 10 years.

However from any historical perspective it is plainly ridiculous to believe that large numbers of retired people can migrate to the Mediterranean and enjoy 20 years of healthy leisure time with no financial worries.

1990's retirement plans were sustained by the bubble economics of the late 20th century. Its over now and I think we are beginning to see an effect on yachting economics.

As to trading insults across the generation gap, I value the accumulated nautical wisdom of the senior yachtsmen here on scuttle but I am certainly not going to let the political nonsense spouted by your generation pass without comment.

> could at least get the spelling & syntax correct

Bill Gates approved my spelling but I’m sorry about the grammatical confusion around some collective nouns.

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[kimhollamby]

Windows, not engines

Not engines as the cause however...they designed the original series with squarish windows and hadn't reckoned for the stresses at the corners over a number of pressurisation cycles. By the time they found out (using a full size fuselage in a water tank) the Boeing 707 had caught up and the rest was history.

Too young to remember actual events but remember cycling to Lasham to catch a glimpse of the Dan Dare Comet 4Bs. Still a wingless version sat on the tarmac at Gatwick although I often wonder just how much longer it will be left there...

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[Cornishman]

Re: Windows, not engines

Kim, I am tempted to say "Get some in" but you probably didn't do National Service either!
Yes, the problem with the early marks of Comet was diagnosed as 'metal fatigue', the first time the phrase entered the language. I remember seeing the water tank tests going on when attending the Farnborough Air Show.
I also recall sitting by the window in a 4c and watching some of the rivets bouncing about near the wing roots as we "revved up" for take off! Hot sweats all the way to Athens where we changed aircraft for onward flight to Nicosia. Nimrods still up there, though.

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[peterb]

Re: Windows, not engines

I believe that the original 707 design had the same problem, but the Comet tests allowed Boeing to correct it before the prototype flew.

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[poter]

Peace.........

LOL
OK young un!

I supose we all have to grow up sooner or later.......
not to sure what your advocating though?
> political nonsense< What political nonsense?

Just a thought, I am sure all the crap heaped on the older generation is only jealousy, because you young uns missed an era of outstanding music, & all you have grown up with is crap sorry, rap & boy bands. Where as we had some of the greatest groups ever: Pink Floyd, Cream, Santana, Led Zepplin.......just a thought.

poter

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