See your MEP's response to red diesel letter

[SimonC]

See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

MBM has written to every UK MEP to get their position on the red diesel derogation, and to ascertain what each of them has actually done to support the campaign.

You see our letter, and the MEP's responses on the MBM red diesel blog

We're also including each MEP's email address, so if you'd like to take up any of the issues raised with your representative, this is your chance.

A decision on red diesel is likely to be made at the end of the year, so this could be your final chance to make your voice heard.

 

[fireball]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

[ QUOTE ]
Thomas Wise, UKIP MEP for the East, told MBM:

"As you say, the UK Government submitted a formal application for the derogation. I am simply not aware of any process or contact I could have that would affect this over here in Brussels. It remains in the gift of the UK government. Why they should have to go cap in hand to get it, baffles me, but then that is what you get by being in the EU, control of your life by folk you do not elect and cannot get rid of!

[/ QUOTE ]

Flammin h*ll ... it baffles HIM!!

[ QUOTE ]

"If you know of flesh I can press, please let me know."

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Nice to know our MEPs are on the ball ... please don't tell me this is going to be a typical response ... oh hang on, it probably is ... they are concentrating on the much more pressing issues of making sure our Apples conform to the euro standard - perfectly round and no more than 6cm diameter with a stalk 4cm long - have they decided the pantone colour it has to be yet?

What a complete and utter waste of time europe is ... we have such a weak government (all of them!) that we just bow to whatever "europe" decides ... it really is about time we - as a MAJOR contributor (I believe a net contributor too?!) to the Euro fund stood up and shouted BOLLOX to you lot ...

The idea that taxing fuel will reduce usage is total cr4p ... it can be demonstrated by the sheer volume of cars now on our roads - desipite the massive hike in road fuel prices - so why do they think that boat fuel will be any different?
So - if the tax hike will not reduce usage - what is it actually going to achieve?! Well - it'll remove a number of borderline boaters from the water - those who don't actually use a significant (in the big picture - its significant to them) amount of fuel anyway...

So - other than ruining boating for a small number of folk - it'll achieve nothing except a bit more work for civil servants (that'll need a big pay rise and a few more positions with final pay salaries then) .. great!

 

[SimonC]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

Well, in fairness, he is from UKIP - and they do tend to make a big play about how they don't understand Europe and are powerless to do anything in it. But, whether you like them or not, they are certainly not responsible for straight bananas / round apples / Human Rights Act or anything else coming out of Brussels.

They're very supportive of our campaign but, unfortunately, they don't agree in participating in the European process, so they're not exactly the most useful allies you can get.

Or maybe they'll prove me wrong... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[gjgm]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

"So - if the tax hike will not reduce usage - what is it actually going to achieve?! Well - it'll remove a number of borderline boaters from the water - those who don't actually use a significant (in the big picture - its significant to them) amount of fuel anyway..."
well, what people say they will do, and what they do isnt always the same.I m sure people move into and out of boating for lots of reasons. Given the overall costs of owning any boat at all, I m not at all convinced that an increase in fuel price will really change the number of boaters. Some might step out, some will step in. Or take up sail... or use the boat differently.Lots of big cars still sold these days, despite an enormous rise in fuel prices-its not as though everyone is buying 1000cc engines bcz of the cost of fuel. I m curious of the sort of fuel bills people have now in relation to the value of the boat and the cost of running it, that suggests they ll have to give up boating in droves. if you have £10k boat, I doubt you use much fuel(well, not diesel!). If you have £50k boat.. £500 more on fuel isnt going to kill you. If you have £100k+ boat-, well its probably already costing £10k a year at least anyway...

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

>>>
if you have £10k boat, I doubt you use much fuel(well, not diesel!). If you have £50k boat.. £500 more on fuel isnt going to kill you. If you have £100k+ boat-, well its probably already costing £10k a year at least anyway...
>>>
Tosh, almost NuLabour indpendant report level tosh in fact.

£10K boat and an extra £500 on fuel doubles my bills. Those bills are kept down by not going tidal as often as I would like to. "As often as I would like to" may become "at all". I can go to Rochetsre and back on £50 of fule, but not in a weekend and its a long way at 6 knots. There is too little understanding of just how marginal some folk's boating really is, and just how many of there there are.

 

[Nickcf]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

[If you have £50k boat.. £500 more on fuel isnt going to kill you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think it will only be £500....
If you do an average now of 70 hours/year the fuel bill is already likely to be well in excess of £2000. The price if we lose red diesel will go up by at least 100% so the increase will be over £2000 per year not £500.....!!! This will put many people off the sport completely as it is a cost too much. This will affect second hand boat prices and consequently damage the new market as well.

 

[Sgeir]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

[ QUOTE ]
[If you do an average now of 70 hours/year the fuel bill is already likely to be well in excess of £2000.

[/ QUOTE ]As much as that? Surely not?

 

[fireball]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

If you use ~ 57L per hour .... that's some engine!!

70hours a year - at 5L per hour (how much do mobos consume?) is only ~£175
So double to 10L/hour (around 2 gallons? no point in accuracy - cos who does exactly 70 hours?!) - and you're still less than £500 ...

I'm certain that even 100% increase in price will not effect our use - it is less than £100/pa (got sails see!) ....
Our highest cost is winter storage/lift .... and that is where we try and save money...

The sort of ppl it will affect are like Andrew_Fanner who are already boating on a tight budget and will result in them using the boat less or even selling on as it isn't seen to be a financially viable hobby - then what to they do? Get on a plane to CostaDelSunburn as the flight and hotel is cheaper than a tank of fuel.... carbon footprint.... probably about the same.

 

[Nickcf]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

[ QUOTE ]
If you use ~ 57L per hour .... that's some engine!!

70hours a year - at 5L per hour (how much do mobos consume?) is only ~£175
So double to 10L/hour (around 2 gallons? no point in accuracy - cos who does exactly 70 hours?!) - and you're still less than £500 ...



[/ QUOTE ]

Well obviously all depends on the boat and the engines but a typical 40ft boat with twin 350hp diesels can consume 60ltrs an hour. 60*70*£.50= £2100 per annum. The benefit of a mobo is at least you have actually got somewhere in your 70 hours of cruising....

 

[gjgm]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

I m not saying my suggested numbers were representative, i was just trying to get some benchmarks. If you take a large twin engined boat.. i dont know what does a second hand one cost? At least £100K? Well, lets agree at some stage an owners wealth might mean he isnt going to abandon his boat bcz of a possible fuel price hike. I sympathise with any specific individual who may, personally, have to give up boating. I m only suggesting that boat ownership is always changing. People marry, have kids, divorce, win the lottery inherit..god knows what . There will always be people leaving and joining the hobby. If people leave, maybe boat prices fall, and then that attracts others in. I m just doubtful we will see a big change in boating if red diesel goes up.

 

[markdj]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

[ QUOTE ]

The sort of ppl it will affect are already boating on a tight budget and will result in them using the boat less or even selling on as it isn't seen to be a financially viable hobby - then what to they do? Get on a plane to CostaDelSunburn as the flight and hotel is cheaper than a tank of fuel.... carbon footprint.... probably about the same.

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This point should be heralded more and seems to be quite logical in what previous boaters will turn to instead of going boating.

 

[Pete7]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

[ QUOTE ]
If you use ~ 57L per hour .... that's some engine!!
70hours a year - at 5L per hour (how much do mobos consume?) is only ~£175 So double to 10L/hour (around 2 gallons? no point in accuracy - cos who does exactly 70 hours?!) - and you're still less than £500 ...

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57L of petrol per hour is cruising speed on fly By, I cringed when she hit 76 lph and the revs were still had another 1000 to go /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Previous 6.5m rib easily managed 45 lph of red stuff in the days when I could afford to buy it. LPG for me in the future /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[raquet]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

It is sad to see such unreasoned responses weaken a democratic campaign. Writing to MEPs and and pressing the case makes complete sense. MEPs make the laws. You vote for them and expect them to exercise their judgement and vote in the parliament on your behalf. Exactly as a Westminster MP does. This is democracy.
Comments from the rather in-aptly named Mr Wise should be understood in the light that his party seeks to destroy the institution which pays his salary.
There is a very easy answer to consuming 76 litres per hour - get a sailboat.
I will own to two strong biases - I have a sailboat and I went to live in Europe to escape the sort of unreasoned invective some contributors display above. Doubtless I can now expect some personal attacks but that too is part of the democratic process.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

Democracy?

Who elects the Commissioners, or can throw them out?

 

[raquet]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

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Democracy?

Who elects the Commissioners, or can throw them out?

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Commissioners are civil servants and not legislators. Like UK civil servants they are appointed. Unlike UK civil servants they must be approved by our elected representatives (MEPs) and can be dismissed by our elected representatives.

If the election of civil servants is a requirement for democracy then the UK doesn't qualify - does anywhere?

 

[Cliveshep]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

I run a diesel boat on a pretty tight budget, so I stick in whatever I can get. Sometimes that's CH fuel where my firm strip out a tank, sometimes plant fuel where there is some left over on site at the end of a construction project and sometimes I have to buy it at marinas.

I love my boating, let me make that clear, why should I have to sit back and watch a series of corrupt governments take it away from me?

All of us vote (meaning some bother, some don't) for the governments of our choice, so we allowed one government to take us into Europe, and the current one to make everything worse.

Our government happily tells us to worry about Al Quaeda and other terrorist groups, or Radical Muslims or, formerly, Communists, and we let them c***k up our airports with security, open the doors to one and all to come in, get soft on crime & criminals, take us into wars with the cousins etc.

Why would any of those supposed enemies want to bother with us? The government is already ruining the country, all the "enemies" have to do is sit back for another couple of years and they can achieve their aims without lifting a finger!

What we need is a strong government, governing for US, not themselves, this I believe is the root of all the problems, not just a red diesel tax hike which is a small symptom of cr*p government. However, my little voice will be drowned out by national apathy of course.

BTW we have a small legacy coming in and had planned to buy a Moonraker, but at up to 20 gph we've decided to stick to our Ocean 30 for the time being.

 

[rubberduck]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

You go stand outside no10 and I'll stand with you.Lets start a convoy!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[BG1]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

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BTW we have a small legacy coming in and had planned to buy a Moonraker, but at up to 20 gph we've decided to stick to our Ocean 30 for the time being.

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My Moonraker with twin 175hp Perkins does 10-11 gph at planing speeds and 1.5 gph at river speeds. Go on, enjoy yourself, spend the legacy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Cliveshep]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

BGI - you have certainly put cat among pigeons now, only 1.5 gph at river speeds? Whole family demand I buy one after reading your post but I'm hanging out for more info. I've posted you privately for more info but by all means respond here if you will, it just seems to hijack the thread by digressing here over consumption issues.

Rubberduck - all we'd do is get cold & wet. Find me a Party who agrees to pull OUT of Europe and I for one will vote for them, especially if they deal with immigration, crime, poor health care, unreasonable cost of marina berths etc.

Meanwhile, my vote goes to get rid of Blair and all of that lot next time. I voted for them after the recession it's true, the last lot cost me job/home etc. But now it's Blair's lot who are out of control. Like molluscs on the hull, they've got to go!

 

[BG1]

Re: See your MEP\'s response to red diesel letter

I didn't mean to hijack the thread, I have just stated facts from years of cruising logs. In reality, I also run my boat on a very tight budget and if the price of fuel reaches the levels being talked about, then my seagoing cruising days are over-I just couldn't afford it.

I agree with the anti EU views and would also vote for a party that would return Britain to a more traditionalist stance.

Clive, I will pp you when I get a bit more time with all the gen on my Moonraker and what you could expect in fuel consumption for different cruising scenarios.