Second hand boat prices

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bedouin

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Prices for second hand boats seem to be at rock bottom at the moment.

I can't help wondering if they are going to recover soon or whether they will continue to fall. In other words is now the time to grab the bargain of a lifetime and upgrade to a boat I could not have afforded a few years ago, or would I be saddling myself with an asset that would continue to depreciate.
 
My guess is that the days of thinking our boats would, near enough, hold their value, are over.

So many boats are being built nowadays, plus more people seem to charter rather than buy.

So.....a double whammy: increasing supply of 2nd hand boats and a dwindling demand for them.
 
NealB said:
My guess is that the days of thinking our boats would, near enough, hold their value, are over.

So many boats are being built nowadays, plus more people seem to charter rather than buy.

So.....a double whammy: increasing supply of 2nd hand boats and a dwindling demand for them.
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Not to mention the high cost of keeping a boat even if you aren't using it. If prices are low then we can't really just hang on to the boat for prices to recover as we still have to pay the mooring, insurance and maintenance costs.
 
NealB said:
My guess is that the days of thinking our boats would, near enough, hold their value, are over.

So many boats are being built nowadays, plus more people seem to charter rather than buy.

So.....a double whammy: increasing supply of 2nd hand boats and a dwindling demand for them.
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So many boats being built???

Maybe ben/bav/jen

But not gt, rustler etc.

So seems like the price differential between the mainstream and the low volume will just keep growing?
 
I think there is a problem because the number of people able to sail is reducing over time. Of all my 5 kids friends none of them have ever sailed and generally its seen as a "bit strange" that we do. And we live near Southampton!

None of the rest of my family sail. Schools don't teach it and while there are many great sailing clubs around here, aged late 40's we are still 15 years under the average age. That's not a complaint, just an observation.

However, I wonder if the Ben Ainslie Portsmouth races will draw people into sailing? You never know, it might help attract more people and if the sailing schools advertise well and keep costs reasonable, there could be more budding weekend sailors looking for a low cost boat.
 
I've wondered if a lot of the boom in recent years has been driven by the prosperity of the Baby Boomers either reaching retirement age or releasing equity from their house. As that generation retires the next generation will not have as much money at that stage in their life (if ever) to put into sailing and so there won't be the new entrants into the sport.

Couple that with the fact boats seem to last pretty much indefinitely so there is an every increasing supply of boats out there without a growing market.

So the question becomes what to buy that will have the least capital depreciation? Buy an AWB in the £30-40K mark clearly can't lose more than you pay, but you may have something very difficult to sell in 5-10 years, or go for a more premium marque at say £100-150K and risk losing a lot more.
 
I'm fascinated by this too, i've been watching prices via yachtworld.com for the past 5 years and i'm not shocked anymore by how little big stuff costs now. Its truly amazing to see what 30k can buy; I know its all upto individual circumstances and tastes but when i was walking round the boat show t'other day i can't grasp why anyone would be buying new at the moment when theres such amazing value in the secondhand market.

Personal favourite i saw recently on yachtworld' site was an Westerly Oceanlord, looked like it was set up for long distance / liveaboard spec with every conceivable extra you could ever want, tv, thruster, generator, solar, watermaker etc complete with a newly laid teak deck being offered for 55k! From what i saw at the show that'd get you a 25ft beneteau.

I personally dont see prices coming back at all for the reasons mentioned, (lack of demand and oversupply in the secondhand market), but on a more positive note those reasons may eventually encourage people to get into the sport by lowering the barrier to entry although maintainence costs will always be there the initial outlay purchasing the boat will be less when compared to pre 2008 prices.
 
The problem in the UK in particular is the cost of ownership not the cost of purchase. Marinas charge stupid prices in most places. A lovely large yacht built 20 years ago may appear a bargain but it might need a new engine, rigging, electronics etc etc which could almost equal tne purchase price again!

Factor in also that any major road to the coast is gridlocked on Friday/Saturday then Sunday evening during the summer puts people off who do not live near the coast.
 
OR4751 said:
All boats depreciate - regardless of what you paid for it.
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Not really true, a boat can reach the bottom of the market from which point the value holds (more or less) providing the condition doesn't deteriorate. This usually occurs when simple failures would write the boat off though.

Some classics must be holding some value surely?
 
I think boat prices hold up remarkably well all things considered.
Check out static caravan ownership if you want to see depreciation in action and loads of normal people get involved with that. 5-6k pa all in makes yachtin look almost cheap I'd have thought.
I bought an Elizabethan 29 for 10k in 2003 and eventually let it go for a eye watering 4k earlier this year. Then again £545pa depreciation isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things?
On the other hand I picked up a splendid BMW 745 off ebay for 2800 the other month. Someone paid 57k for that 12 years ago.
 
Up until recently I reckoned a good boat held its value in £ terms (i.e. not taking account of inflation) provided you maintained it well - but maintenance could be 10-20% of the price anyway. But over the last 5 years that has changed with many boats apparently halving in value over that time. That of course upsets all the equations - the maintenance is still the same but compared to the price it looks much higher, and mooring costs haven't fallen either, so I reckon the cost of owning the boat is now about 25% of the value!
 
Does anybody really spend 10% on maintenance every year?
I can maybe see £500 on a 5k boat but 5k pa every year on a 50k boat? I don't think so and even if true, a lot of it would be discretionary.
 
ridgy said:
Does anybody really spend 10% on maintenance every year?
I can maybe see £500 on a 5k boat but 5k pa every year on a 50k boat? I don't think so and even if true, a lot of it would be discretionary.
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I spend about £3k on my MAB each year. Around £1k on lift, paint, sundries, each spring; another £1k on minor replacements and upgrades and another £1k on something major like a new sail. It's a sort of rolling replacement program to try to ensure that post refit we don't need another major refit for many years to come.
 
Buying at a keen price is always a good start to dealing with the total cost of boat ownership.

But you'll make yourself fairly unpopular, with dealers, brokers and owners, as I've discovered.


Garold
 
As most trades are from existing owners changing for whatever reason, surely lower prices makes the price difference smaller? Meaning selling a 50k boat for 25k and buying a 100k boat for 50k is going cost you 25k less than when the market was high. So unless you are going the other way, we are better off now if prices stay at depressed levels.

I think it better to mentally write the cost price down to zero on the day you buy it to avoid future disappointment.
 
zikzik said:
As most trades are from existing owners changing for whatever reason, surely lower prices makes the price difference smaller? Meaning selling a 50k boat for 25k and buying a 100k boat for 50k is going cost you 25k less than when the market was high. So unless you are going the other way, we are better off now if prices stay at depressed levels.
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That is part of the reason for asking/thinking. Now is a good time to trade up - I could give my present boat away and still get more for my money on the replacement than I could have for the same amount 5 years ago. So if prices are low but have stablised or are about to go up then it is a good time to buy now but if prices are going to keep falling then there could be even better bargains in a year.
 
Well its a balance between what none of us can know verses what you want.

Yesterday is gone forever, go get it. You can always cry in your beer later if they fall 50%, but you will never get your time back sailing the boat you want if you wait.
 
mike h said:
Not really true, a boat can reach the bottom of the market from which point the value holds (more or less) providing the condition doesn't deteriorate. This usually occurs when simple failures would write the boat off though.

Some classics must be holding some value surely?
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The last five years would suggest that isn't so. My Albin Vega, for example, would have fetched perhaps £12,000 - £13,000 five years ago, but today in pretty much the same condition I would be lucky to get £8,000

It is a great time for anyone wanting to buy a decent old boat under 35ft - there are bargains everywhere.

- W
 
But everyone should avoid what I call "BigBoatisis" - the desire for an ever larger boat without good reason. "Trading up" might mean to a better boat of course, but each time the LOA increases one moves to a whole new level of boat ownership costs. I used to suffer from BigBoatIsis but thankfully have seen sense and intend staying firmly below 12m LOA.
 
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