Seasickness

[Code0]

Hi - I'm a long term sufferer of seasickness and in my 20's I was recommended Scopoderm patches, which were a revelation. Beyond the often reported dry mouth, I had no discernible side effects.

Fast fwd 30 years, and now in my 50's, I had occasion to use a Scopoderm patch whilst undertaking a 200nm solo passage in the summer. Again, they were fantastic, to the extent that I could have bled the diesel engine in a F6 without even a twinge of seasickness (to put this in context, I can easily get car sick as a passenger - I think my vestibula system is on overdirve!)

The trouble is after about 24 hours of wearing the patch I started to get some mild hallucinations (I was seeing each breaking wave as a golden retriever - don't ask!) I also have a complete memory gap from about 02:00 - 07:00. I can recall tacking as I reached the edge of the TSS but can't (& couldn't the following day) recall any of the navigational details or other aspects of the passage for this period (unhelpfully B&G tracks are notoriously corrupted so they provided no insight either!) I put this down to being tiered at the time. It was only a few weeks later that I went back to look at the data sheet for Scopoderm that I read the below:-

In rare cases, confusional states and visual hallucinations may occur. In such cases, Scopoderm Patch should be removed immediately. If severe symptoms persist in a severe form, appropriate therapeutic measures should be taken e.g. administration of physostigmine, 1-4 mg (in children 0.5 mg), slowly IV (intravenous) to be repeated if necessary (see overdose section).

The NHS website is even more alarming suggesting I should have called 999!

Sailing, often longer passages, singlehanded means I really do need an effective seasickness remedy and all the oral meds I have tried (most of them!) are at best only partially effective and often make me pretty drowsy. I'd like to persevere with Scopoderm because they work 100% for me.

I'd be grateful for any advice from professional medics on here. In the current climate, it feels a bit "first world" to take up a valuable GP appt to ask the question


I had an idea to use the patch for 3 days at home whilst "under adult supervision" (SWMBO) and see what happens. Although I guess any past indication of hallucinations is a predictor of future problems, despite what my home test may reveal? And my home trial would not combine being sleep deprived / interrupted.

 

[johnalison]

I only suffer mildly from seasickness and can normally avoid it by being careful about actions that might induce it. In the past we have been in the habit of taking Stugeron when a lively passage was in prospect. This has been very effective for us and is probably the best of its type. The hyoscine tablets or patches you have used were the ones used on D-day and are also known to be very effective, possibly the best for those who tolerate them. Stugeron can also induce drowsiness in some people, but I have not noticed it myself. The trouble with hyoscine is that it inhibits the tolerance to sickness that normally develops during the first few days, meaning that it is ideal for a Channel bash but not for the Atlantic. Stugeron and the antihistamines do not do this and would be better for a long trip.

I think that your idea of using the patches for a few days before travel is perfectly reasonable and could be your best option, providing you don’t drive while suffering side-effects. On the whole, hyoscine is pretty safe if used correctly.

 

[Neeves]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry - but if you feel you cannot ask your GP - there is something fundamentally wrong.

Go and see your GP and get professional advice.

Jonathan

 

[Code0]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry - but if you feel you cannot ask your GP - there is something fundamentally wrong.

Go and see your GP and get professional advice.

Jonathan

Ah, I see you are from Australia....

The UK healthcare system is somewhat strained right now, it's winter and I won't be sailing until the spring and I can't even get through to my GP's reception to even book and appointment for anything right now. In fact my GP surgery is constantly bombarding me with passive aggressive text messages telling me not to bother them. When you do get through their recorded message says (in summary) unless you are dying we aren't interested, if you are dying call 999. Last call I had with my GP about chronic migraines he told me to take asprin, He couldn't recall the dose, thought it was quite high, and suggested I google it.

I'm genuinely not knocking GP's - I think they are at the sh*ty end of the stick right now, but just thought I'd provide context to why I won't be asking a GP. Plus there are kind and friendly medic types on here ;-)

 

[Slowboat35]

The average GP is unlikely to have a scooby about medicines for seasickness.

I wonder if the hallucinations and amnesia were more an effect of fatigue? Highly likely after 24hrs.

The Navy probably knows more about seasickness than anyone else and uses Stugeron afaik.

 

[johnalison]

As a GP, I was often consulted about things far more trivial than sea-sickness and took the view that advice and perhaps a bit of education was far more effective than dismissal. I agree that the GP service in the UK is variable, and virtually non-existent in many places, and I would share your reluctance to seek GP advice on such a matter at this time. I do not think that it is outside the proper concern of a GP though, any more than any other health concern.

 

[sailingmartin]

Code 0. I’m also a fellow seasick sufferer and have tried many cures including Scopoderm patches, which made me drowsy and didn’t help the sickness. However, the ones that work for me are Biodramina, which is a common Spanish anti-seasickness pill. You cannot get it over the counter in the UK (you can in Spain) but it is available easily over the internet. Worth a try if you continue to have problems. As far as I am concerned it’s trial and error to find what works for you. Good luck.

 

[Boathook]

Ah, I see you are from Australia....

The UK healthcare system is somewhat strained right now, it's winter and I won't be sailing until the spring and I can't even get through to my GP's reception to even book and appointment for anything right now. In fact my GP surgery is constantly bombarding me with passive aggressive text messages telling me not to bother them. When you do get through their recorded message says (in summary) unless you are dying we aren't interested, if you are dying call 999. Last call I had with my GP about chronic migraines he told me to take asprin, He couldn't recall the dose, thought it was quite high, and suggested I google it.

I'm genuinely not knocking GP's - I think they are at the sh*ty end of the stick right now, but just thought I'd provide context to why I won't be asking a GP. Plus there are kind and friendly medic types on here ;-)

I would go to the GP. It will make a change from the normal aches and ailments for them. Never know, the one you see might be a boat owner.

 

[Bathdave]

my wife also suffers and has tried different things …scopaderm patches helped but the side effects were quite severe for her, especially on longer crossings.

when we did our Atlantic crossing, I started in Gib and she joined the boat in cape Verde islands. She suffered quite badly first three days and scopaderm side effects were quite acute too

one of the crew had been given something called Avomine by a friend in Gib who said it was what local fishermen and merchant seamen used

it worked well for her too and that’s what she now uses ..no side effects for her

it is a type of anthistamine and is available without Prescription

 

[JohnGC]

My wife sometimes suffers and has had success with this;
Reliefband Seasick Remedy Watch - Motion Sickness Control

Also a friend found one useful crossing Biscay. His situation was interesting. Not normally a sufferer, the onset of seasickness was sudden. He tried the "watch" and the sickness quickly stopped. A day later he was suddenly ill again and discovered that the ""watch" had turned off (possibly due to the cuffs of his wet weather gear pressing the buttons). On turning the "watch" back on, he once again recovered.

If £100 is too much to fork out for a trial, maybe someone near you could loan you one. It sounds like you could test it in the car. The side effects are a slight tingling in the wrist and hand.

 

[Resolution]

CodeO, you have my sympathy. I am a serious sufferer of seasickness and have, over the years, tried many remedies. Apart from some magic combination of uppers and downers provided on the side by a doctor friend in Hong Kong, none of the pills have had any real effect. Stugeron has been the best of the bunch for me. I haven't come across Biodramina .
I have used the "watch" suggested by JohnGC to some effect. Forget his description of a "slight tingling"; to get any results you need to turn it up to max, just short of the electric chair for executions! Also has the advantage of keeping one awake on night-time watches. Ultimately though, it failed to stop me feeling badly sick.
In recent years I have used Scopaderm, a lot. Usually put in place at least twelve hours before setting off. Also had one episode of hallucinations, in mine the waves off Sardinia all turned into ducks!! This was early on in a passage, and I was not tired. Glad to say this episode did not last long and (despite looking for the ducks) I have not had any more hallucinations or memory losses etc, and the patches have generally kept me able to skipper and even do most navigation. Last month in a rough passage from Cyprus to Greece , my initial patch seemed to be losing effect so I stuck a new patch behind the other ear and felt OK again. All three other crew, who usually have no sickness problems, started to feel bad so I gave them each a patch and all recovered after a little while.
No doubt they are powerful and have side effects, but there can be few things worse than feeling badly seasick.
Peter

 

[Daydream believer]

I sail SH. The relief band watch does help me & has reduced it a bit. But i have to turn them right up & keep adjusting the position for max effect. I get really seasick on 25% of my trips. I can be ill within 7 miles of departure. This also brings on migraine for which I take Toprimate. As a serious stomach migraine sufferer it has been a fantastic relief, as I now generally only get mild aurora on dry land but different at sea.. However, I do get vertigo twice a year & the doc has prescribed emergency relief for when I am on my own. If I get that on the boat, I am dead, as it comes on in seconds & I am totally incapacitated.
I have learned how to manage sea sickness. I treat it as an "attitude of mind"

My doctor is a keen sailor & knows the problems, having children who suffer, as well as herself.
She has prescribed Cinnarizine tablets which do work very well. I do not take them all the time in case I run out & getting to see the doctor for a refill may be impossible. So I keep them for the 100mile + trips.

The patches make me ill & I once tried them at work, the day before departure & ended up in the company sick room, chucking up for all that I was worth.
I have to say that the thought of having physostigmine,applied slowly IV -intravenously- (post #1) might cure the sea sickness quicker than anything else . In fact anything applied -intravenously- might make me liven up a bit quick

 

[Code0]

Obviously I’m sorry that you too suffer

CodeO, you have my sympathy. I am a serious sufferer of seasickness and have, over the years, tried many remedies. Apart from some magic combination of uppers and downers provided on the side by a doctor friend in Hong Kong, none of the pills have had any real effect. Stugeron has been the best of the bunch for me. I haven't come across Biodramina .
I have used the "watch" suggested by JohnGC to some effect. Forget his description of a "slight tingling"; to get any results you need to turn it up to max, just short of the electric chair for executions! Also has the advantage of keeping one awake on night-time watches. Ultimately though, it failed to stop me feeling badly sick.
In recent years I have used Scopaderm, a lot. Usually put in place at least twelve hours before setting off. Also had one episode of hallucinations, in mine the waves off Sardinia all turned into ducks!! This was early on in a passage, and I was not tired. Glad to say this episode did not last long and (despite looking for the ducks) I have not had any more hallucinations or memory losses etc, and the patches have generally kept me able to skipper and even do most navigation. Last month in a rough passage from Cyprus to Greece , my initial patch seemed to be losing effect so I stuck a new patch behind the other ear and felt OK again. All three other crew, who usually have no sickness problems, started to feel bad so I gave them each a patch and all recovered after a little while.
No doubt they are powerful and have side effects, but there can be few things worse than feeling badly seasick.
Peter

Obviously I’m sorry that you too suffer and had an experience of hallucinations but it has made me feel slightly more normal

 

[Code0]

I sail SH. The relief band watch does help me & has reduced it a bit. But i have to turn them right up & keep adjusting the position for max effect. I get really seasick on 25% of my trips. I can be ill within 7 miles of departure. This also brings on migraine for which I take Toprimate. As a serious stomach migraine sufferer it has been a fantastic relief, as I now generally only get mild aurora on dry land but different at sea.. However, I do get vertigo twice a year & the doc has prescribed emergency relief for when I am on my own. If I get that on the boat, I am dead, as it comes on in seconds & I am totally incapacitated.
I have learned how to manage sea sickness. I treat it as an "attitude of mind"

My doctor is a keen sailor & knows the problems, having children who suffer, as well as herself.
She has prescribed Cinnarizine tablets which do work very well. I do not take them all the time in case I run out & getting to see the doctor for a refill may be impossible. So I keep them for the 100mile + trips.

The patches make me ill & I once tried them at work, the day before departure & ended up in the company sick room, chucking up for all that I was worth.
I have to say that the thought of having physostigmine,applied slowly IV -intravenously- (post #1) might cure the sea sickness quicker than anything else . In fact anything applied -intravenously- might make me liven up a bit quick

- interesting - I was on a low dose of cinnarzine for some dizziness years ago which seemed to have the side effect of alleviating my sea sickness!

 

[MikeCC]

You can slow down the uptake of Scopoderm patches by covering part of the skin contact area with some non-permeable tape.

A lower dose may still be effective but avoid the side-effects.

Hallucinations are not surprising - hyoscine is one of the active ingredients of ayahuasca.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

my wife also suffers and has tried different things …scopaderm patches helped but the side effects were quite severe for her, especially on longer crossings. when we did our Atlantic crossing, I started in Gib and she joined the boat in cape Verde islands. She suffered quite badly first three days and scopaderm side effects were quite acute too

one of the crew had been given something called Avomine by a friend in Gib who said it was what local fishermen and merchant seamen used

it worked well for her too and that’s what she now uses ..no side effects for her. it is a type of anthistamine and is available without Prescription

For long term use patrol sailors in WW2, the hyoscine side effects meant it was contraindicated. The early antihistimamines arose from attempts to find better seasickness and airsickness tablets for soldiers and sailors who need to approach combat zones over turbulent sea or air, without being so sick they could not operate.

Sadly most products caused excess drowzyness though sometimes the drowzyness was overcome by massive doses of amphetamines. Happily some caused noticeable abatement of hayfever.

 

[Fossil]

Well, I have been a sailor for longer than I care to admit to, and before I retired I was a pharmacist. I also suffered from seasickness, to the point at which doing simple chartwork or handling ropes became a problem in the first days of any voyage. For that reason I self-medicated with Stugeron before every trip , which more-or-less solved the problem. I didn't seem to get any adverse effects (perhaps I was lucky) and these days find I am hardly affected by mal de mer at all, so don't bother taking anything. Just as well, since Stugeron isn't available here in New Zealand, but I usually buy a few packets every time I get back to the UK and during the pandemic have made arrangements to have some sent to me should my reserve stock get out of date.

 

[johnalison]

I would never set out on a significant passage without having something like Stugeron on board, though I wouldn't normally taken one. One advantage of Stugeron is that it has virtually no taste and it is easy to chew one if one gets the early signs of nausea.

 

[Sandy]

Ah, I see you are from Australia....

The UK healthcare system is somewhat strained right now, it's winter and I won't be sailing until the spring and I can't even get through to my GP's reception to even book and appointment for anything right now. In fact my GP surgery is constantly bombarding me with passive aggressive text messages telling me not to bother them. When you do get through their recorded message says (in summary) unless you are dying we aren't interested, if you are dying call 999. Last call I had with my GP about chronic migraines he told me to take asprin, He couldn't recall the dose, thought it was quite high, and suggested I google it.

I'm genuinely not knocking GP's - I think they are at the sh*ty end of the stick right now, but just thought I'd provide context to why I won't be asking a GP. Plus there are kind and friendly medic types on here ;-)

A few points from a frequent single hander:

1. Welcome to the forum;
   
   
2. Are the hallucinations due to the drug or lack of sleep/rest;
   
   
3. Do the hallucinations happen when you are on long voyages with a cew; and
   
   
4. I'd get it checked out by your GP, finding one that sails is really helpful.

 

[Birdseye]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry - but if you feel you cannot ask your GP - there is something fundamentally wrong.

Go and see your GP and get professional advice.

Jonathan

The problem with that is the word "General" in GP. ie knows a bit about everything but is an expert in nothing. These days you are as likely to see your GP checking your syptoms on the net or even googling them to be sure - its happened to me!

I have only ever been sea sick twice and it was so miserable an experience and so disabling that I always use Stugeron. However, I once had the same hallucination experience when crossing Biscay and being on watch for 36 hours. My suspicion would be that it was the tiredness as much as anything which was the issue with me and possibly with the OP..

Try staying up and functioning for 48 hours without the patches to see if that is true. Either way you cant afford to do anything other than day sail until you find the answer.