Sealine S23 advice and help needed

CX54WEK said:
At the end of the day we could argue this until we are blue in the face. It is upto the OP to decide the right boat for them.

Personally i dont see that sleeping on a bow rider is really an option. Cooking and using the toilet facilities would be interesting as well once you have added a fridge, cooker and overnight gear aboard, there really wont be much room for manouvre as it were.

A "real" cruiser offers more choices, more privacy and also offers the cockpit which is roomy enough for when you have guests. Hey you can even have guests stay over night relatively comfortably and there is no need for roughing it or camping aboard. You have proper and comfortable beds. No need to be making berths up either there is a fixed double berth that is large and roomy.
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And the S23 is a lovely pocket cruiser, but the OP is never going to cruise and will stay onboard once or twice a year.
The S23 would most defo be on my "look at" list if I wanted to cruise the South Coast and have regular weekends away, but why chuck away all that amazing day space IF you want to day boat? I simply can't get my head around that, it doesn't appear to make sense?

I can only guess that you haven't been aboard a larger bow rider.
Not my favourite brand, but the Maxum 2400SD (Sun Deck?) offers a tremendous amount of boat with tidy used ones being around £20K. That is just an example.
Sat outside my office is the most well thought out Sea Ray 260 Sundeck. Not in the equation as it is brand new, but it has 3 showers, a really big heads (sit down, but you can swing the preverbial cat, TONNES of storage a wet bar, stunning cockpit with plenty of seating options and with the canvas package it is really weekendable. It really is a superb day boat with once a year overnighting thrown in.

Of course every boat is a compromise and OP may well choose the S23 is right for him, but it would be a shame for him to choose before he really has all the facts.
 
The S23 is a great boat, but you can't beat the Bayliners for 'bang for buck'. Yes, the trim and build quality aren't in the same league as Sealine, but you'll pay twice as much as the equivalent Bayliner for the better finish.

Diesel is not the big deal over petrol on Windermere, that it is on the sea and there is very little difference between forecourt diesel prices and those for marine diesel at the only fill-up station on the Lake. Most people fill from jerry cans instead. My 5.7L petrol uses less than 3 gallons on a trip round one of the basins and I don't even use a full tank over the entire year.

Personally, I'd put toilet facilities as a priority, especially if you're anchoring up somewhere out of the way, such as the Bird Sanctuary. Take a look at a number of boats, such as the Bayliner 245 and 265, as well as the S23 and buy the one your 'other half' likes!
 
Asking this type of question will only end up with you becoming very confused. Different owners will plug their makes/types of boat, oftens referring only to the positives, whilst quietly forgetting the negatives (I know, I've done it myself)

What you should do, is try to get down to the SBS in a couple of weeks or so, and look at the different styles/types for yourselves, or get around as many dealers/brokers you can. You've seen the S23 (which would be my choice but then I have owned 7 different Sealines -see I'm showing my bias already!!), look at the cuddy cabins/bowriders/RIBs etc. At some point, your choice will become obvious to you - you really do need to look for yourselves.
 
IRC Kevin said:
The S23 is a great boat, but you can't beat the Bayliners for 'bang for buck'. Yes, the trim and build quality aren't in the same league as Sealine, but you'll pay twice as much as the equivalent Bayliner for the better finish.

Diesel is not the big deal over petrol on Windermere, that it is on the sea and there is very little difference between forecourt diesel prices and those for marine diesel at the only fill-up station on the Lake. Most people fill from jerry cans instead. My 5.7L petrol uses less than 3 gallons on a trip round one of the basins and I don't even use a full tank over the entire year.

Personally, I'd put toilet facilities as a priority, especially if you're anchoring up somewhere out of the way, such as the Bird Sanctuary. Take a look at a number of boats, such as the Bayliner 245 and 265, as well as the S23 and buy the one your 'other half' likes!
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Bayliners in their petrol versions may well offer a cheaper package, but you stick a diesel in there and the story changes completely. They are not good value when fitted with a diesel engine and well overpriced for what you get. It certainly wont cost you anywhere near twice as much for an S23 that is the same age as a petrol Bayliner 245 and the diesel S23 will always be worth more than than the petrol Bayliner.

If people bring their diesel in jerry cans (as we do) then it really isnt difficult to find a supplier of red diesel and your fuel bills will be greatly reduced from the petrol versions. As a rough guide we currently pay 70ppl for red diesel where as the cheapest local supplier of petrol is £1.16pl. Thats a saving of 46ppl plus the diesel engine is more economical. Over a years use that is some saving if you are going to use the boat. We generally use our boat for 300 hours per year (although this year looks set to be higher we have done 250 hours already) so over that useage a petrol boat wouldnt be viable.
 
Totally agree with the above about diesel Bayliners, but Windermere is a bit of an exception for the petrol/diesel argument, as you're very unlikely to do many hours at all. It takes about two hours @ an average speed of 4mph to do the South Basin, slightly less for the North. Weather permitting, most people tend to anchor up somewhere nice and chill for the day, leading to very few engine hours over the year. Accoording to my logbook, in the last three years, I've spent 398 days on the boat, done 80 engine hours and we go out most days that the weather is decent. Personally, I don't think that diesel makes the saving over petrol on the Lake, that it would in other locations, for a boat that is to be used for just the occasional day.

Condition of the boat, whatever the make, should be a factor very high up on your check list. Has it been serviced? Has it been used, or just left unattended for months at a time? (like an awful lot of boats on Windermere!) Is the canvas worn? (particularly the stitching and the front canvas over the screen seems to be the most critical point to check) Any sign of rain water leaks below? Has it had a new battery charger in the last five years? (if not budget around £350+ for one, unless you're going onto a floating mooring and then it won't matter) Is there any unrepaired accident damage? (again, boats on Windermere suffer from a lot of minor collison damage, as many of the marinas are very tight to get in and out of) Certainly ask to see the boat out of water and take a look at the bottom of the boat, prop and leg, as there are also a lot of sharp rocks in places and the boatyard at our marina has a steady trickle of damage repair from accidental grounding. (Windermere is actually tidal, but not so as you'd notice, but I've seen water level vary by 14 feet over the last three years and people get careless.) Diesel bug doesn't seem to be an issue with the people I know who have diesel boats, but their boats are used regularly.
 
That throws up a few more questions as well there.

If the boat has been kept on Windermere has it been serviced on time. The normal interval is every 100 hours OR 12 months. A lovely F33 has recently arrived at the brokerage at our marina from the lakes. It is a 2002 boat with 80 hours on the clock. It is presented in excellent condition for top money but on closer inspection the date on the oil filters is 2006. It hasnt been serviced for nearly 4 years. Not a good sign.

Lack of use can be as much of a killer to boats and their engines as over use. Check the service and maintenance schedule is up to date.
 
CX54WEK said:
Lack of use can be as much of a killer to boats and their engines as over use. Check the service and maintenance schedule is up to date.
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100% agree, but a little less important in fresh water than salt.
Assuming the anodes have done their job and the props have taken the hammering in the following years (once the anodes have been chewed) rather than the legs then a quick service, drop out the drives and sort the bellows etc, new props and anodes and you should have a boat very close to new condition for old boat money.

Of course, get a mechanical survey to check that the above is the case!
 
Nautibusiness said:
100% agree, but a little less important in fresh water than salt.
Assuming the anodes have done their job and the props have taken the hammering in the following years (once the anodes have been chewed) rather than the legs then a quick service, drop out the drives and sort the bellows etc, new props and anodes and you should have a boat very close to new condition for old boat money.

Of course, get a mechanical survey to check that the above is the case!
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Would be more concerned about the engine as well. Having old oil sitting in the block with old contaminants and 4 years worth of condensation wont do it any favours. Also ancillaries dont like being sat around idle for years either, they tend to complain about being brought back into use.
 
There's another thing to check (and possibly get in writing) that the boat has not been previously sunk and repaired. In the 2009 floods over twenty boats from Marina Village, mostly sub 30 footers, and an unknown number from other parts of the Lake, were sunk at their moorings because they were attached to fixed jetties. See this YouTube clip for an idea of the scale of the problem- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7yMwKkfaF0

I'd also strongly recommend you ask to see paperwork about service history and not just rely on the word of the salesman. People have been told porkies in the past (myself included).

It also used to be that anodes lasted up to three years, but this is not the case recently, especially in some moorings, where the water has a higher acidic level than found in other parts of the Lake. I have seen leg anodes off a 285 that rotted away in less than 2 years and had already attacked the leg.
 
IRC Kevin said:
There's another thing to check (and possibly get in writing) that the boat has not been previously sunk and repaired. In the 2009 floods over twenty boats from Marina Village, mostly sub 30 footers, and an unknown number from other parts of the Lake, were sunk at their moorings because they were attached to fixed jetties. See this YouTube clip for an idea of the scale of the problem- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7yMwKkfaF0

I'd also strongly recommend you ask to see paperwork about service history and not just rely on the word of the salesman. People have been told porkies in the past (myself included).

It also used to be that anodes lasted up to three years, but this is not the case recently, especially in some moorings, where the water has a higher acidic level than found in other parts of the Lake. I have seen leg anodes off a 285 that rotted away in less than 2 years and had already attacked the leg.
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We are having the same anode problem. 18 months tops out of ours and they are very corroded at that. They are getting changed every 12 months now just to be on the safe side.
 
Thanks guys, it is at Windemere Marina! Few questions to be asked now that I would not really have thought of before you mentioned it. It hasn't been serviced for 18 months and had 200 hours use from new. We are thinking as part of any negotiation to say it must have a full service and faults fixed, plus we have been advised to get it surveyed. On reflection we don't think a bowrider is right we have a 20 foot bayliner now and want more covered space plus comfort as it has tipped it down all week here!! We feel we would rather have a cruiser, this is a total luxury, no one really needs a boat! So it's a treat and we fancy a cruiser, as with very young children the inside space for power naps etc is handy. Your help is massively appreciated.
 
My god!!!

After looking at the video link of windemere marina I scoured them all. Look at 4 mins 17, that is the boat I have been looking at over to one side!! What to do now?? It has not had new carpets or anything so looks like it was just dragged over a bit. Should we move on or try to get the price down and insist they survey it and service it etc? My heart says leave it
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=7eMGTBHb3sE
 
dannie said:
After looking at the video link of windemere marina I scoured them all. Look at 4 mins 17, that is the boat I have been looking at over to one side!! What to do now?? It has not had new carpets or anything so looks like it was just dragged over a bit. Should we move on or try to get the price down and insist they survey it and service it etc? My heart says leave it
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=7eMGTBHb3sE
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There was so much diesel in with the water, that I would suspect that there would be traces of it on the soft furnishings if it had penetrated, but I'd take a very good look around the cleats to see if there is any signs of cracking, as there was a lot of force on the lines, especially as some of the boats were banging against each other. Also check the rubbing strake for any signs of damage, as this can lead to rain water leaks in years to come.

There are plenty of S23s for sale in the country, although I would try to find one that has only seen freshwater use, as this cuts down on all sorts of potential corrosion issues. The problem with Windermere, is you pay a premium as most boats come with a 'mooring space' (you have to pay separately for this though!), as there are a lot more people wanting to boat than there are spaces available. It can be cheaper to transport a boat in from outside if you already have a mooring.

This is probably too big and too expensive for you, but there is a very nice Bayliner 275 for sale (a wide bodied 265) at Aquatics. I know this boat as it was moored next door to me for most of the last three years and the owner treated it like his baby. Serviced and maintained regularly and every time he visited it he cleaned inside and out. There were no issues that I know about, apart from a trim activator that was replaced under warranty last year.

http://www.aquaticboatcentres.com/usedboat/Bayliner_219.htm
 
Sorry to throw the plug in, but my S23 is for sale. Fresh water use :) But i'm in the West of Ireland. I bought it from UK originally. It's currently one of the cheapest (asking) in the UK & Ireland. Reason for that? I want an S28, absolutily no other reason. PM me for more info if you want

(It comes with a trailer, you can legally tow it home, just as I did from the UK)
 
The Aquatics boat is too expensive. Looks like a nice boat but I think it should be nearer £35k.
I personally love the Bayliners as they offer great space and are generally cheaper than other makes. However the Aquatics customer service is unique !!

Having bought 3 New Bayliners from Aquatics and 1 Sealine, I sold 2 with them and shipped 2 to Burton Waters for Sale.

The last was a new 265 I bought from them in 2007. In 2009 I put the boat up for sale and moored it at aquatics costong £300 a month. It needed a small repair costing approx £200 which they would not do until I signed a form. This from a company that I had dealt with for the previous 10 years. When I questioned it they said I was a bad payer and hence need to sign the form, It turned out they related this to 1 invoice that was for £250 for fitting a ski eye which i queried and they refunded 50%.

I gave them the option, pull the boat out and jet wash it ready for me to collect or do the repair. After two weeks I called and ask what was happening, Reply Mr **** your boat is in the trailer ready to collect !!! Burton Water made the sale 3 months later, just the same as they had done 3 years earlier with my F44.

Still love Windermere and Aquctics but just cant bring myself to buy from them again, SWMBO would go mad, How can you go back when they treat you like this ??!! Hence am boatless at the moment...
 
CX54WEK said:
If people bring their diesel in jerry cans (as we do) then it really isnt difficult to find a supplier of red diesel and your fuel bills will be greatly reduced from the petrol versions. As a rough guide we currently pay 70ppl for red diesel .
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Um , I wouldn't be advertising this if I was you because presumably you are not paying the correct duty at that price.
HMRC may well read what's on here.
If you are paying duty at the 60:40 split rate then I appologise for being presumptuous.
 
CX54WEK said:
For us the US small cruisers just didnt offer the same level of build quality
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A comment I have heard before on a number of occasions, just like the 'cracked chines and strakes' comments about Sealines from other British boaters.

While experienced boaters like Neale of this forum are prepared to go bashing their way across the channel in his 24 foot Bayliner, I would be reasonably assured the brand is quite sound.
 
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