alahol2
Well-Known Member
Spinning with a drill...
I did this on my old Mariner 2T when it resisted all attempts at starting. Worked a treat.
I did this on my old Mariner 2T when it resisted all attempts at starting. Worked a treat.
Seagull outboard
- Thread starter Allan
- Start date
VicS
Well-Known Member
My guess would be that it probably wont work with an electronic ignition system, Only with a points system. Your old Mariner points or is that another theory shot down!
PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
You haven't bought an engine, you have acquired a hobby & load of new friends. Congratulations, enjoy it. The soft blue haze & the distinctive putt-putt together with the rainbow sheen on the waters will mark you out as an enthusiast & a character wherever you use it.
You have also aquired an outboard that will start perfectly on the bench and water butt at home but as soon as you put it on a dinghy transom afloat it won't start! Also they are famous for leaking smelly petroil in the boot of your car......and as said of leaving a trail of oil on the water. I eventually got rid of mkine, it was a 55 with clutch and it was snapped up. I now have a Honda 2hp and a Suzuki 2.2hp which are both much better(SHMBO also does not complain about the smelly car it's now stored in the boat club dinghy shed)
ffiill
Well-Known Member
No such thing as electronic ignition-its a magneto which generated a high voltage spark plus a set of points which open and close in convential manner.
Electronic as on modern single cylinder engines has no moving parts whatsoever-just a magnet fixed to flywheel and a spark generator which it moves past causing the spark
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
My Seagull is old, leaky and smelly but it has been operating fairly reliably for 45 years. I doubt whether the Honda or Suzuki will have such longevity. I love it and am just off to rub it with an oily rag (which is the only maintenance they need).
VicS
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that Seagulls never had electronic ( CD) ignition systems, only points sytems. If so I think you may be wrong and Tranona right.
I think you will find that the MK III Wipac CD system was fitted from around 1978.
Here is picture of the MkIII Wipac system
and a picture of the Wipac MkIV fitted I think from around 1987
I think also that you will find Mr T worked for B Seagull at one time
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alahol2
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's got points.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you are trying to say. Seagulls had a Villiers magneto (silver flywheel) until the 1960s then a Wipac (gold flywheeel), then from 1979 electronic ignition - no magneto, no points. Suppose I should know because I was responsible for trying to sell all this new fangled stuff (recoil starters, clutches and seals in gearboxes came in at the same time) to a sceptical public.
Davy_S
Well-Known Member
I remember the electronic ign seagulls, I bought one from a place in Cheshire/Darbyshire, new mills i think. Had nothing but trouble with it refusing to start, took it back to the shop, they managed to get it started once, but it would not start again. They offered me a new one, I refused and asked for the magneto type, That one never missed a beat!
Allan
Well-Known Member
OK so I am now on the boat and have put the serial number into the SOS website. I have been drinking so this may not be 100%. I have:-
Years Manufactured 1978 to 1979
Series Forty
Model Plus - Clutch Drive Bing carb
HP 2-3
Ignition Wipac Mk 2
Gear Oil SAE or EP 90
Model Plus -Clutch Drive/Bing Carb* gearbox has seals
Is that good? What should I look at before I try to start it? Should I have another drink?
Allan
Years Manufactured 1978 to 1979
Series Forty
Model Plus - Clutch Drive Bing carb
HP 2-3
Ignition Wipac Mk 2
Gear Oil SAE or EP 90
Model Plus -Clutch Drive/Bing Carb* gearbox has seals
Is that good? What should I look at before I try to start it? Should I have another drink?
Allan
VicS
Well-Known Member
Its a GFPC then is it?
Id have expected a MkIII ignition with all the other bits of the description.
Does it infact have Bing carb .. they were not fitted for long..
Clean and regap the plug or better replace it.
check for a spark.
If good:
clean fuel filter in tank and the one on the inlet to the carb
Fill with fresh fuel ( 25:1 using a TCW3 oil)
Give it a try
Change the gear oil. If its EP90 then its the same as car rear axle oil
Id have expected a MkIII ignition with all the other bits of the description.
Does it infact have Bing carb .. they were not fitted for long..
Clean and regap the plug or better replace it.
check for a spark.
If good:
clean fuel filter in tank and the one on the inlet to the carb
Fill with fresh fuel ( 25:1 using a TCW3 oil)
Give it a try
Change the gear oil. If its EP90 then its the same as car rear axle oil
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a Bitza!. The clutch gearbox did not come in until 1979 and there was an overlap with the older non clutch model. Change back from Bing to Villiers carb was about the same time. The ignition is distinctly different. The Magneto flywheel is much bigger, originally bronze painted and a black removable cover to get at the points.
There is no reason why you cannot mate an earlier power head with a magneto to a later leg. Also possible to fit a Bing carb to later (or earlier) head.
Check the serial number on the crankcase. It will have FP in it. GFP means Bing carb (G for German - imaginative people in Poole!) EFPC is electronic and C for clutch.
Any combination of head/carb/ignition will work. VicS advice on checking is really all you need to do. Put it in a tank, squirt some neat oil into the carb as you are pulling the string and it should go. Start it out of gear as this takes the load of the gearbox and prop off the poor little engine. Run it up out of gear for a minute or so until you can open the choke, put it into gear, go and have a beer - it will run until it runs out of fuel.
There is no reason why you cannot mate an earlier power head with a magneto to a later leg. Also possible to fit a Bing carb to later (or earlier) head.
Check the serial number on the crankcase. It will have FP in it. GFP means Bing carb (G for German - imaginative people in Poole!) EFPC is electronic and C for clutch.
Any combination of head/carb/ignition will work. VicS advice on checking is really all you need to do. Put it in a tank, squirt some neat oil into the carb as you are pulling the string and it should go. Start it out of gear as this takes the load of the gearbox and prop off the poor little engine. Run it up out of gear for a minute or so until you can open the choke, put it into gear, go and have a beer - it will run until it runs out of fuel.
VicS
Well-Known Member
It should be explained that "bitza" or "bitsa" means bits of one and bits of another!
Love the reason for the G prefix. Often wondered why G= Bing
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Hanging up in my garage (best place for it!) is my 40+. 1976 GFP powerhead that spent much of its early life on the bottom of a reservoir near Bristol (having fallen off an angling boat) with a clutch gearbox, Villiers carb, blue painted brass tank, electronic ignition, recoil starter and a much prized stainless exhaust tube. Run it in the tank every couple of years to make sure it still works. Should last forever.
VicS
Well-Known Member
In my garage is a 1973 40+ which I bought in 1975 when I built my Mirror dinghy. It still has not had any significant amount of use.
Also a 1974 Featherweight. I bought that in the early 1980s. Not used very much and probably on fresh water. I use it on my tender but still not had a lot of use.
2 jolly good engines I will have to sell I guess before many more years pass.
Also a 1974 Featherweight. I bought that in the early 1980s. Not used very much and probably on fresh water. I use it on my tender but still not had a lot of use.
2 jolly good engines I will have to sell I guess before many more years pass.
Allan
Well-Known Member
It is a GFPC made in August 1978. There is nothing written on the carb, it has a small chrome filter with Seagull and choke position stamped on it. It also has a white plastic choke lever and bowl at the bottom.
So, it sounds like I have the worst carb and worst ignition system. The little bit of fuel looks mucky, so I will get that out and add some new when I clean out the filters. I will be changing the plug but may try with this one first. From the SOS website I'm not sure what mixture to use, it says the Bing carb can be used with 10:1 but says 25:1 elsewhere.
Allan
So, it sounds like I have the worst carb and worst ignition system. The little bit of fuel looks mucky, so I will get that out and add some new when I clean out the filters. I will be changing the plug but may try with this one first. From the SOS website I'm not sure what mixture to use, it says the Bing carb can be used with 10:1 but says 25:1 elsewhere.
Allan
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VicS
Well-Known Member
The serial number indicates , you say, 1978/9 so it will most likely originally have been originally a 25:1 model, in any case it will be suitable for use on 25 :1. Any after 1968 ( IIRC) can be run on 25 :1 subject to the correct needle ( Or jets in the case of the Amal 2 jet carb) being fitted
A Bing carb will run on either 10:1 or 25 :1 without alteration.
If you have a Villiers carb then the mixture is determined by the needle fitted. The needle will be marked with a number near the top end readable with a magnifying glass.
See the FAQs section of the SOS website for all the details.
Investigate the ignition if you dont get a spark. If its a contactless ( electronic) system it'll mean changing the module if everything else ( plug and lead ) is Ok.
If its a points sytem check, clean, reset, the points. Then I suppose if no go then its a new coil assembly that needed.
Old MKI Villiers ignition systems have a separate coil and condenser. Mk II Wipac sytems are a sealed unit.
Post some pictures.
I think I have a photo that shows the markings on the Villiers needle. I'll see if I can find it.
VicS
Well-Known Member
This is a Villiers carb needle showing that it is a no 3 which is the size for 10:1.
25:1 needles are no2 (or perhaps 2½)
25:1 needles are no2 (or perhaps 2½)
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I bought a 25:1 needle for my previous Seagull and that needle had no markings on it.
They were re-manufactured by the SOS guy (I think he posts on here)
They were re-manufactured by the SOS guy (I think he posts on here)
Tranona
Well-Known Member
No - it will be fine. As said the Bing will run on 25:1. Nothing wrong with the ignition. Main reasons for moving to electronic were first, Wipac did not want to keep on making the old magneto and second the electronic system made it easier to fit a recoil starter.
You have one of the very first clutch engines - in fact think there were only a handful made as electronic ignition and "new" Villiers carbs were in short supply. One of the "advantages" of the lack of systems etc was that you could just make engines with what was available. Powerheads and legs were built and stored independently and then put together as complete engines as orders were received.
Happy days!