Seagoing

[hlb]

Re: Cockpits.

Brenda. Nobody can hit every wave right, not even you. Or have you forgot the lost window screen incident../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

I was talking to a bloke with a Moon Raker this summer. He had self draining decks. His problem was, the waves had come straight through his window screen and flooded the boat.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Birdseye]

Re: Cockpits.

Interesting thread for a raggie thinking of going to power.

Just what sort of conditions can I expect a modern 35ft power boat to cope with? open sea conditions, say going across to Ireland?

In a modern sailboat of that size, I wouldnt be worried about F6/7 at sea (as opposed to sheltered waters) though I wouldnt chose to go out in more than a 4/5. And certainly wouldnt be worried about windows knocked out, water over the decks, and would largely be self righting.

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[hlb]

Re: Cockpits.

A good power boat will cope with similar sea conditions as a sail boat. Except that the power boat is expected to cope at 20 plus knots!! If you've spent any time at sea, you will understand that sea conditions varey wildly. I've cruised up the length of the Bristol chanel with a F7 behind me, at 22 knots. Would not have liked to go the other way though!!

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Fire99]

I get your point But i've had a wave go over the top before.
With the rear canopy section up, didnt take on any water...

The discussion point here is not whether my boat can take a force 8 or 10 etc, its what determines what a motor boat can handle..
And i also have noted the points about it being about the Skipper and not the boat etc, but as i say, i'm trying to get some info on Boat capabilities not whats right and whats wrong..

cheers,

Nick


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[Capt_Mike]

Hi Nick
Have a look at some of the small fishing boats, from 18 to 30 Ft. The fishermen have no problem but know when to go to sea, and it is confusing wind speed and sea state. We have been out in F3 and very rough but also in F4-5 and slight.
The boat should have all the usual safety gear on board and depending on the conditions you go for it, we see lots of small speed boats 12 to 18 Ft in the right conditions
We have cruised the east coast in a 23Ft boat but now have 29Ft boat.
So how long is that piece of string?
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/beagle/


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[Fire99]

Thanks Mike for that..

I totally agree there are loads of variables.
I was just interested in what makes a good boat for the sea and what makes a bad one. You see these Vikings and boats like that which are classed for Canal and River only and My Freeman 30 which many say are ok for Coastal work in reasonable conditions.
Then you get Mitchells and the like which people think can go virtually anywhere.
So i was just interested in what characteristics determine the boats suitability for different locations / conditions..

Thanks again for the reply.

Nick


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[hlb]

Type of hull, engines, over all strength. Deap V or semi displacement, or displacement. Many sports boats and private craft, just have hull shaped for maximum speed, given the engine fitted. Or just for largest possible living space.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Cockpits.

Haydn, the loose not 'lost' windscreen was due to repetitve slamming, in conditions that were not 'rough' just horrible short sharp stuff. Was not due to huge tsunami breaking over bow as you now seem to be making out.

This is a bit like having a bunch of wives who remember every incident from last 12 years and bring up in inappropriately everytime they get miffed

In fact in all the time I've been boating, and I go out in rougher stuff than most, and I've submarined a good few times, I've never taken any serious water on board. I've got carpet, and it rarely even gets damp,

Suspect the difference is I slow down and drive through the waves with helm and thotlle, while you put on autopilot, go below and just blattt right through the rough stuff, which not suprisingly makes the boat rather wet /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[hlb]

Re: Cockpits.

Thats nowt. Tutts remembers everything from 30 years ago!! Anyway you said that you fell in a big hole. So obviouly going to fast.

And no. I'm talking about three foot of water on deck long enough to switch radar on, cos could only see fishes through window, and only doing 7-8 knots..../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif But I will conceed that I have occasionally been cruising along quite happy with 20 knots and then, all of a suden theres this wave, or hole that turns up from nowhere and to fast to hit throttles.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[BarryH]

Re: Cockpits.

Getting all rather tetchy ain't we. Someone mentioned earlier about the person on the helm. Which is probably the biggest factor.
All boats are different. An Arun class lifeboat in the wrong hands will be just as dangerous as a leaky collander. The main factor I think is knowing the boat your using.
I've been looking at changing the boat recently, waiting for an answer to an offer, and have seen some really nice boats that have been knackered cos the owners don't have an understanding of the boat itself.
At many of the Sunseekers that I've looked at theres signs that a good percentage have been driven too hard in adverse conditions. Engine mounts have shown signs of stress, hulls have also shown the same signs. All because the owners, or past owners, have blatted through rough seas too quickly pounding the hulls and machinery.
Whats lacking is what I call Sea sence. They've not read the conditions and allowed for them. I find that people with smaller boats tend to have a better grasp. You've got to read the waves and keep the boat in contact with the water. It may be fun and exciting to jump every wave, but the boat will soon show the signs even if the crew don't.

So what makes a sea worthy boat. First and foremost I'd say the skipper. Because the skipper is the one that makes the decisions. He can only make good desisions if he knows his boat and its capabilities.

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[hlb]

Re: Cockpits.

Ah but. And yes Brendan does seem to have got out of the wrong side of bed this morning.../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Anyway. A couple of years ago, we were in Milford haven. So was kicking shit up about it being an orrible place. Cant blame him to much. So I confermed fuel availble. Got weather report. F4/5 And set off for Padstow. About 3/4 way across the waves were humonguss. So gets on VHF. Just going to give out a strong wind warning they said. Hum! Now Padstows not a good place to go with a big sea, so diverted to Swansea, Only accesible place, perhaps 70 miles away. So the little 40?? mile trip turned into a 100 and odd mile rollercoaster epic ride.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Fire99]

Re: Cockpits.

Well this has proved rather interesting...
I thinks some of us are in a different league with regards to the Craft we are using.
My freeman 30 will be doing no more than about 7-8 knots so if she jumping waves, then im off to get a lift home from the Lifeboats!!
I remember being out on the Blackwater in what ended up being about force 6 in my old little Norman 18 and it was all on the throttle and we made it home to Maylandsea without becoming a Sub. if a little wet..
I find the freeman harder to judge as she moves alot slower and her changes in direction are much slower. Hard to tell just how stable she is..
Well its certainly caused a reasonable amount discussion.

cheers,

Nick

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[powerskipper]

Re: Cockpits.

What I think you need to know is her coding, i.e. stability design
There should be a plate or label on her with her code on
A IS Ocean,
B, is offshore
C is inshore coastal cruising within 10 miles of land and within appro 4 hours of safe harbour
D sheltered waters safe harbour within 1 hour.

There is a book RYA Stability and buoyancy [G23] that explains it all.
This mite be the information you are looking for.

Personally if I am in a boat and after say hitting a biggish
wave, I do not feel happy that boat will go out without me.


<hr width=100% size=1>Julie

 

[Fire99]

Re: Cockpits.

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the Info.
Since she was built around 66-68, would those categories be around at that time?

thanks,

Nick


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[Gordonmc]

Is, perchance, the question prompted by the description of the Waverley as the World's last ocean going paddle steamer? This relates to her old Board of Trade classification which had more to do with watertight bulkheads etc.

As other have said, it would be difficult to tie a boat's seagoing capabilities down to wind speed. On Sunday, for example the wind in the South Clyde was gusting force 6, but it was a SE'ly and didn't stir up the waves until well off-shore. I wouldn't have ventured out if it had been SW'ly.

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[powerskipper]

Re: Cockpits.

There was some kind of coding I think. But it did vary.
The MCA web sit mite help or pick the brains on the RYA web site
. I will ask a friend who mite know, seeing him tomorrow,
if I get answer will let you know.
julie

<hr width=100% size=1>Julie

 

[miket]

I have owned both Freeman 30 (aft cockpit) and Freeman 32 (open centre cockpit)
The 30 I never took to sea because it had honking great V8 petrols. The 32 took us twice to Holland and several trips down Thames estuary (non tidal Thames based) to France.
The hull shape of both is very similar and would once have been described as Hard Chine. This term is not generally used now and can be likened to a shallow "V".
My 32 had 2 Thornycroft diesels and cruised at 15 knots. I guess yours may be somewhat slower?

As most have intimated a lot depends on sea state/ wind speed.
In the Thames Estuary Westerley and especially easterly are not good news and I would suggest (assuming 10 knots max) F3/4 would be quite sufficient.
If wind from S or N (across the estuary) you may be OK at F4/5.
If attempting a channel crossing (Ramsgate/Calais) at least 3 hours, just remeber that in choppy conditions 3 hours is not enjoyable and with an older boat you will be putting a lot of strain on a weakened structure as well as stirring up all the crud in your fuel tanks.

Be aware of conditions and the limitations of you and your boat. If in doubt wait another day.

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[Fire99]

Thanks Mike for all that info..

I'm not one to take lots of risks.. and yes my Freeman with the small Lombardini Diesels is only gonna be doing around 8 knots.
I must say though that when talking about older hulls etc, my old Freeman seems to have a pretty heavy hull on her. Seems alot more sturdy than some of the newer boats which i would imagine are built more to a cost..
But i wouldn't be aiming to be out in anything heavier than a force 4 with a reasonable sea state. But, as we all know, the weather can turn very quickly and unexpectedly so its good to know if you're gonna be in trouble or not..
I think, if funds allow, i may do a seagoing practical course for peace of mind that atleast im doing the right thing if conditions do unexpectedly get bad.

How do you find your Broom compared to the old Freemans?

thanks,

Nick


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[powerskipper]

Re: Cockpits.

Asked freind . He does not think there was any kind of coding then, Sorry could not help more,

<hr width=100% size=1>Julie

 

[miket]

The Freeman was great and we enjoyed our ownership.
If you ever decide to go a bit faster I reccomend the 32 (narrow rear cabin coachroof and non enclosed centre cockpit version) The enclosed wheelhouse and full width rear cabin one is very nice but a bit slow.
After having done the osmosis and lightly loaded my Decca (few years back!!) showed 19 knots in still water.

The Broom is superb.
Different kettle of fish.
As we were spending so much time afloat and funds permitted we decided to buy the Broom 37 (1992), but only after Moonraker 36, F'line Turbo 36 and Broom 33!
She weighs in around 12 tons and has a total of 612hp and goes through quite rough water with disdain. You also have a whole 37 feet of very comfortable accomodation.

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