Seacocks? open or closed advice please

[pvb]

My last boat had seacocks on the cockpit drains. As I had to leave those open, I left the others open too, figuring there's no real risk. I had to close the heads outlet seacock if I wanted to make use of the holding tank. People worry far too much about these things.

 

[prv]

Didn't ball toilets, as originally fitted to Hanto Biru, have no seacock at all?

The Ball Hed toilet barely had a valve at all, just a sort of flap like an old-fashioned crap-on-the-tracks train toilet. Apart from the flap it was essentially a large hole in the hull with a toilet bowl around it. The rim of the bowl had to be above the static waterline, and to account for rolling and pitching putting the rim under, the lid above the seat was a heavy-duty affair with a metal clamp to keep it closed.

Mental

Pete

 

[BabaYaga]

Some people have badly-installed toilets that leak water into the boat if the seacocks are left open. That's temporarily a valid reason to keep them closed, but only until you can fit a high loop with an anti-siphon valve to eliminate the problem. Otherwise you're reliant on every crew, guest, and small child following your pedantic lavatory instructions to the letter to ensure you don't sink. Unless you only allow ex-submariners on board, that seems like an unacceptable risk to me.

Many people with correctly installed toilets (high loop etc) also have recurrent problems with the toilet bowl back filling, cleaning of clack and joker valves etc.
I have chosen to have no high loop in the outlet and consequently I always close the seacock after use.
The occasional guest and small child will need a fairly pedantic instruction just to be able to operate the toilet, I think. Especially one with a separate flushing pump. Asking them to shut the seacock (or checking that they have) is not at big problem. If forgotten, sinking would still be an extremely slow process.

 

[Richard10002]

I used to hang my engine keys on the raw water inlet seacock whenever it was closed. I dont think there was any way that you could forget to open the seacock before starting the engine, (I guess you could say "never say never").

 

[RichardS]

Well said, that man. The only seacocks I regularly use are the two sink ones, and that's only because the sinks fill if the boat heels a lot. The others - heads and engine - get opened at the start of a trip and closed at the end, and that's really only to keep them working which only really matters, of course, because I open them at the start of a trip and close them at the end ...

But I don't think any of us who recommended closing the seacocks have said any more than that.

I close and open my seacocks 2 or 3 times a year. I open them at the start of each sailing holiday and close them at the end of each sailing holiday. I have 2 or 3 sailing holidays a year, each one between 2 and 4 weeks. That's it.

Richard

 

[Strolls]

I would stick with wooden bungs that will work in all situations and dont degenerate over time. The lifespan of these plastic things is much shorter than the liklihood of an incident requiring their use, hence when you need them they will invariably be well out of date and disintegrating.

Are you sure?

I'm sure wooden bungs are perfectly sound, but I didn't think modern plastics suffered from such deterioration.

If there are any plastics boffins here, the Seabung is apparently made from "elastomeric TPU outer with ABS plastic core".

 

[pmagowan]

Are you sure?

I'm sure wooden bungs are perfectly sound, but I didn't think modern plastics suffered from such deterioration.

If there are any plastics boffins here, the Seabung is apparently made from "elastomeric TPU outer with ABS plastic core".

Not sure but this was a point brought up in a previous discussion on this type of bung. Apparently there was a 'use-by date' of some kind. Happy to beproved wrong. I think seabung work more on the side of a maintainance aid rather than an emergency bung for which a wooden block is hard to beat.

Yachting monthy did a youtube crash boat test video showing that a potato or a carrot is surprisingly effective but I am not sure you can rely on having one to hand. Bottom line is, for seacock or tube failure you are likely not to be around when it is a problem so they are all useless and the boat sinks on its mooring. If you are present then the best thing will be an alarm that allows you to identify the breech fast so that it is easy to locate. Then you can simply put your hand over it until you have a better solution.

 

[Strolls]

Not sure but this was a point brought up in a previous discussion on this type of bung. Apparently there was a 'use-by date' of some kind.

Many thanks. I sit corrected.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Back to the OP-----
I tend towards the idea that holes below the waterline should be thought of as potential problems and seacocks should be closed unless there is a good reason for them to be open.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I take it that due to Insurance, people are now thinking the right decision is to close seacocks when leaving the boat for more than a few hours.

Thread Drift.
My boats seacocks are mostly situated in hard to get to places.
Whoever designed my boat (John Rock) with its first owner (John Rock), must have been extremely fit and agile to have hidden them away.

I've just replaced the original 1970's engine seacock and given a couple of others a birthday. They've lasted well and the previous owner who had her from around 1980, when on land for the winter, used to put a thin stick with rag and grease up through the hull fitting with valve open then close the valve after it had a good wiping round.
I've continued to do this and even the Blakes cone valves appear to benefit as much as gate valves as they seem to run a little more freely after treatment.

I used not to close Amblers seacocks whilst at sea………
A few years back, whilst on a 12hr starboard tack in choppy seas, I had a minor flood. Loo I thought, so I fitted an extremely high anti-syphon loop.

When it did it again a few weeks later I found to my chagrin, that the inflow of seawater was coming down the back of the sink. The casting of the sink had no plugs in the overflow high at the back and were visible only with a mirror and torch.
How the boat had survived without a flood sooner beats me. The previous owner must have been very disciplined about closing all the seacocks!! ??

S.

 

[reeac]

Back to the OP-----
I tend towards the idea that holes below the waterline should be thought of as potential problems and seacocks should be closed unless there is a good reason for them to be open.

I agree. Opening and closing seacock said is scarcely an onerous task and the excercise is good for them. I keep the engine cooling water seacock open when on the boat plus the key in the switch in case a quick start is required.

 

[Poecheng]

The owners manual for Sadlers advised to keep the seacock open on the basis that the the likelihood of failure was so close to zero as to be safely ignored but the likelihood of starting the engine without turning the seacock on (on any occasion) was a material likelihood. Balance lay in keeping it open.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'm surprised you're still using gate valves. These have been generally condemned as unsuitable by most authorities.

I take it that due to Insurance, people are now thinking the right decision is to close seacocks when leaving the boat for more than a few hours.

Thread Drift.
My boats seacocks are mostly situated in hard to get to places.
Whoever designed my boat (John Rock) with its first owner (John Rock), must have been extremely fit and agile to have hidden them away.

I've just replaced the original 1970's engine seacock and given a couple of others a birthday. They've lasted well and the previous owner who had her from around 1980, when on land for the winter, used to put a thin stick with rag and grease up through the hull fitting with valve open then close the valve after it had a good wiping round.
I've continued to do this and even the Blakes cone valves appear to benefit as much as gate valves as they seem to run a little more freely after treatment.

I used not to close Amblers seacocks whilst at sea………
A few years back, whilst on a 12hr starboard tack in choppy seas, I had a minor flood. Loo I thought, so I fitted an extremely high anti-syphon loop.

When it did it again a few weeks later I found to my chagrin, that the inflow of seawater was coming down the back of the sink. The casting of the sink had no plugs in the overflow high at the back and were visible only with a mirror and torch.
How the boat had survived without a flood sooner beats me. The previous owner must have been very disciplined about closing all the seacocks!! ??

S.

 

[Plum]

The owners manual for Sadlers advised to keep the seacock open on the basis that the the likelihood of failure was so close to zero as to be safely ignored but the likelihood of starting the engine without turning the seacock on (on any occasion) was a material likelihood. Balance lay in keeping it open.

That's interesting, my Beneteau owners manual (printed in 1998) says "close all seacocks when leaving the boat"

Colin. Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Dipper]

It might be in your insurers interests to know a little bit more about boats. I know of at least one yacht which sank at its berth because the cockpit drain seacocks were blocked. Closed is just a more efficient way of blocking them.

I haven't checked my insurance recently but it used to say to close all seacocks when the boat was unattended EXCEPT for the cockpit drains. Seems sensible to me.