ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
I thought SIKA were just jumping on the current bandwagon for adding an 'i' suffix or prefix. As in iplayer, ipod, ipad etc.
Seacock stuck?
- Thread starter Murv
- Start date
Falling Star
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nigelmercier
RIP
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2007
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- Live in Kent, boat in Canary Islands
Thank you, that's good to know. From reading this thread it looks like replacing the skin fitting at the same time is advised.
About to order these:
SKINFITTING 1.5BSP DOME HEAD BRONZE
Part No. 403127
BALL VALVE DZR 1.5"BSP FEMALE PORTS
Part No. 405707
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ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
If you can get the valve off without disturbing the skin fitting i wouldn't bother. If you're concerned about the material of the skin fitting, I would change it.
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prv
Well-Known Member
It doesn't really matter which of the two you get, just that I went into Force 4 the other week and couldn't find the old 291 I was used to, just this new "i" stuff. Just wanted to reassure you that whichever your local chandler has is fine.
Don't use 292 though, it's more like glue for permanent fixing. And 295 is for wooden decks.
Pete
Murv
Well-Known Member
OK, great, thanks
No doubt it would've thrown me into a panic if I could only find 291!
No doubt it would've thrown me into a panic if I could only find 291!
Lodesman77
Well-Known Member
Murv
Well-Known Member
Quick update, for anyone interested, or for the benefit of anyone else searching the forum...
Tackled it with the blowtorch yesterday, nothing happened.
But, the heat did allow the pipe to be removed fairly easily and also the attack loosened it's connection to the thru-hull fitting which enabled me to remove it.
Took it home, heated it thoroughly with the blow torch and kept applying penetrating oil in the hope it would be drawn deep inside. No effect.
Left it soaking overnight in oil, tried it this morning, still no movement.
Resigned myself to replacing it, so thought I'd have a "nothing to lose" go at freeing at by standing on the fitting and really forcing it round, at which point it started to move...
So, lots of hot soapy water, followed by applications of oil and lots of wiggling and it's now working freely, and it's clean.
Although I didn't particularly fancy replacing it (it's £70.00 for the fitting) it's what I was going to do, but... with the ball closed, the penetrating oil sits on either side of the ball and nothing leaks through the valve.
If the oil can't get through, it should have no problem with far more viscous water, so I'm going to refit it.
With the effort it took to free it up, I don't think there's any way it would ever have feed up in situ.
Thanks again for all the help,
Chris
Tackled it with the blowtorch yesterday, nothing happened.
But, the heat did allow the pipe to be removed fairly easily and also the attack loosened it's connection to the thru-hull fitting which enabled me to remove it.
Took it home, heated it thoroughly with the blow torch and kept applying penetrating oil in the hope it would be drawn deep inside. No effect.
Left it soaking overnight in oil, tried it this morning, still no movement.
Resigned myself to replacing it, so thought I'd have a "nothing to lose" go at freeing at by standing on the fitting and really forcing it round, at which point it started to move...
So, lots of hot soapy water, followed by applications of oil and lots of wiggling and it's now working freely, and it's clean.
Although I didn't particularly fancy replacing it (it's £70.00 for the fitting) it's what I was going to do, but... with the ball closed, the penetrating oil sits on either side of the ball and nothing leaks through the valve.
If the oil can't get through, it should have no problem with far more viscous water, so I'm going to refit it.
With the effort it took to free it up, I don't think there's any way it would ever have feed up in situ.
Thanks again for all the help,
Chris
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
The thing with ball valves is that there's very little you can do in the way of maintenance. But I've found if you exercise them regularly thay give little trouble.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Excuse my ignorance, and joining this thread late - but I am considering changing the engine inlet ball valve, after somebody tried to force turn it the wrong way last year and seems to have damaged slightly.
I always assumed seacocks would be replaced as an entire unit, skin fitting and valve. However earlie in the thread it suggested replacing the valve - and one with a DZR spec to be safer.
Is it common practice to replace the valve part without changing the skin fitting? And if so, is there not a risk of electronic corrosion if the specifications are at all different ?
I always assumed seacocks would be replaced as an entire unit, skin fitting and valve. However earlie in the thread it suggested replacing the valve - and one with a DZR spec to be safer.
Is it common practice to replace the valve part without changing the skin fitting? And if so, is there not a risk of electronic corrosion if the specifications are at all different ?
VicS
Well-Known Member
If I were Murv Id at least remove, inspect and refit the skin fitting, esp as his efforts to remove the valve may have disturbed the seal with the hull. I'd not refit the old one if there was the slightest doubt about it.
It is common I beleive to fit DZR valves onto bronze /gunmetal skin fittings.
Not sure if DZR skinfittings are avaialble or not... ASAP supplies dont seem to list them!
I assume bronze is stronger anyway
Bronze and brass are compatible Galvanic series but mixing stainless steel with either might not be such a good idea
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Rossynant
Well-Known Member
I would also say all should be replaced, but then we are not talking normal 'seacock' here, as should be. This is about that cheap and unacceptable way boats are made 
Seacock - that is "hull valve" - is in one piece more or less that has a flange and is itself mounted to the hull skin.
And this threaded pipe going as 'through-hull' is meant only to be as named - going through skin as a hole finish. Also using anything other, in place of bronze proper is, well, cheaper ersatz.
As ball valve is cheap and dispensable (and time ago was not allowed for seacocks) it should be changed when necessary, but I still have no idea why anyone would call this cheap assembly a "seacock"
This is a seacock base - made for use with ball-valves to screw on: http://m0.i.pbase.com/g4/84/622984/2/91533230.0Gta6HFb.jpg
and the proper assembly: http://m5.i.pbase.com/o4/84/622984/1/118833015.nmk9m1Qx.FlangedAdapterPaint.JPG
in this case all bronze (at least looks that)
Worth reading for interested it seems (I didn't, so no comments) http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/seacock_primer
Seacock - that is "hull valve" - is in one piece more or less that has a flange and is itself mounted to the hull skin.
And this threaded pipe going as 'through-hull' is meant only to be as named - going through skin as a hole finish. Also using anything other, in place of bronze proper is, well, cheaper ersatz.
As ball valve is cheap and dispensable (and time ago was not allowed for seacocks) it should be changed when necessary, but I still have no idea why anyone would call this cheap assembly a "seacock"
This is a seacock base - made for use with ball-valves to screw on: http://m0.i.pbase.com/g4/84/622984/2/91533230.0Gta6HFb.jpg
and the proper assembly: http://m5.i.pbase.com/o4/84/622984/1/118833015.nmk9m1Qx.FlangedAdapterPaint.JPG
in this case all bronze (at least looks that)
Worth reading for interested it seems (I didn't, so no comments) http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/seacock_primer
Murv
Well-Known Member
Well, all was going well until I refitted it. It was tight, but I decided to tweak it round a little more, which is when the Hull fitting moved.
Not much, just a millimetre or so but probably too much. So, there's another job to add to the long list
No idea what the fitting is held on with, but it's a thick rubbery gunk both sides that looks as if it's going to be a nightmare to remove.
Not much, just a millimetre or so but probably too much. So, there's another job to add to the long list
No idea what the fitting is held on with, but it's a thick rubbery gunk both sides that looks as if it's going to be a nightmare to remove.
Rossynant
Well-Known Member
Seems I was just reading Your thoughts
It's not held at all, that's the problem. Just put there with a hope it stays...
Read above link
It's not held at all, that's the problem. Just put there with a hope it stays...
Read above link
VicS
Well-Known Member
Its not going to go anywhere.
If an adhesive sealant, such as Sikaflex 291 is used, it is going to be pretty well stuck fast too.
When fitting tighten by hand onto a couple or little spacers between flange and hull. When cured pull out spacers and fully tighten the back nut while holding the fitting still.
A bit of a fiddle but not a bad idea to fit the valve to the skin fitting before tightening down at all so that the valve handle can be positioned where required.
Alternatively fit a locknut so that the valve can be positioned as required and locked in position
Rossynant
Well-Known Member
Yes, mine hold very well, and look 40 years old. But it relies on proper sealant and tightening the nut , so somebody who just purchased an old boat will not know how good the installation is untill he checks. Better, when in doubt, to do this anew so you know.
P.S
Doing exactly this myself (valves OK but old), DZR is a new idea for me, so checked: DZR can be used with bronze and said not to suffer. (21 pounds for 1")
Just look if the skin fitting is OK.
Bronze valves (really everything in them of bronze) hard to find, can be ordered from USA. No reason to go for such on 1 valve.
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Murv
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys.
Will recommence battle next weekend, the locking nut on the inside of the hull has been covered with the Black rubber sealant so I think it's going to be a lot of cutting and scraping to get it off.
When refitting, should any adhesive be applied to the locknut at all? or is it all dependent on the outside seal?
How would I hold the fitting still if I were to apply the ball valve before adding the Silkaflex?
And (and apologies for all the questions!) how tight should the ball valve fitting to the skin one be? I obviously over tightened it this time so I guess a bit short of that!
Will recommence battle next weekend, the locking nut on the inside of the hull has been covered with the Black rubber sealant so I think it's going to be a lot of cutting and scraping to get it off.
When refitting, should any adhesive be applied to the locknut at all? or is it all dependent on the outside seal?
How would I hold the fitting still if I were to apply the ball valve before adding the Silkaflex?
And (and apologies for all the questions!) how tight should the ball valve fitting to the skin one be? I obviously over tightened it this time so I guess a bit short of that!
dje67
Well-Known Member
I found this thread very helpful when I did my seacocks last year. I worried a lot about the job before getting started, but found it all pretty straightforward once I'd actually got started!
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286447
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286447
Murv
Well-Known Member
Useful, thanks
Hopefully my through-hulls have a notch or similar that I can get something to fit on/in!
Hopefully my through-hulls have a notch or similar that I can get something to fit on/in!
Rossynant
Well-Known Member
The fitting should have kind of two "dents" (have no word here) on inside, there is even a special tool but something else can be used to engage on them. Second person from outside to hold it still is good idea.
Valve you can put on PTFE tape - but then a kind looking like sewing thread is preferred by plumbers - this makes a seal also so not much force is necessary. Sorry, I do this by feel.