Seacock Question

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A boatyard in Italy is currently carrying out some routine maintenance on my boat. As part of this, I asked them to check the operation of all seacocks including the main engine seawater intake seacocks which feel very stiff to move.
They have come back to me and said that if they take these seacocks apart to check and clean them, they cannot absolutely guarantee their watertightness once they put them back together again. Does this sound right or are they just saying this to cover themselves?
To replace these seacocks with new ones, they have quoted me about €2000 + VAT (20% in Italy). Obviously I'd rather not spend this money, particularly as I've got to spend money in other areas. The seacocks themselves are 3" dia and are 3 way (rather than 2 way) ie there is also an inlet port to pick up water from the bilges and pump it out through the engines in an emergency flooding. The yard is saying that the only supplier of these seacocks is the boat builder ie Ferretti and hence the high price. Anyone know if there is a supplier in the UK who can offer 3 way seacocks of this diameter?

 

[aquapower]

have you tried Aquafax, they supply this kind of thing and import a lot from Italy

www.aquafax.co.uk

Or try www.hydravalve.co.uk
they list up to 4 inch 3 way valves, T or L type

 

[DAKA]

A boatyard in Italy is currently carrying out some routine maintenance on my boat. As part of this, I asked them to check the operation of all seacocks including the main engine seawater intake seacocks which feel very stiff to move.
They have come back to me and said that if they take these seacocks apart to check and clean them, they cannot absolutely guarantee their watertightness once they put them back together again. Does this sound right or are they just saying this to cover themselves?
To replace these seacocks with new ones, they have quoted me about €2000 + VAT (20% in Italy). Obviously I'd rather not spend this money, particularly as I've got to spend money in other areas. The seacocks themselves are 3" dia and are 3 way (rather than 2 way) ie there is also an inlet port to pick up water from the bilges and pump it out through the engines in an emergency flooding. The yard is saying that the only supplier of these seacocks is the boat builder ie Ferretti and hence the high price. Anyone know if there is a supplier in the UK who can offer 3 way seacocks of this diameter?

I have found that lifting out , drying and operating a seacock on dry land will clear any growth and on re launch the seacock operates loosely.

I also find my engine seacocks are very stiff if I dont close them soon after stopping and the engine bay is warm.

I either run the engines to cool the seacocks or wait several hours before the whole engine bay is cool.

 

[jfm]

I ... run the engines to cool the seacocks...

I love planet Daka

 

[DAKA]

I love planet Daka

Translation / further explanation for those that dont think Daka stlye

After say 100nm, you get back , hose down, have a beer and go to close the seacocks but.......

the heat from the engine has warmed your seacocks , warm seacocks expand and are seized up.

Option 1
wait 6 hours for the engine bay and seacocks to cool.

Option 2

Run the engines on tick over for 73.47 seconds during which time the impellers will have sucked 86.97 L of cold seawater through the warm seacocks and will have cooled them to 18.438 degrees , seacocks contract to normal size and will now close with ease, as they are full of cool sea water they will remain cool for about 10 minutes before the heat from the engine bay will cause the contraction process to start again.

Not sure if you understood the first time and I apologise if I am teaching you to suck eggs but I once had to explain this to a mate who I caught with a length of scaffold pole trying to close his seacocks in a brand new boat.

 

[DougH]

[QUOTE

Run the engines on tick over for 73.47 seconds during which time the impellers will have sucked 86.97 L of cold seawater through the warm seacocks and will have cooled them to 18.438 degrees , seacocks contract to normal size and will now close with ease, as they are full of cool sea water they will remain cool for about 10 minutes before the heat from the engine bay will cause the contraction process to start again:[/QUOTE]

Totally disagree.

After 73.47 seconds the tempreture by my calculations would be 19.45678 degrees.

Get your facts right Daka.

 

[DAKA]

Please read it again I specifically mentioned following a 100 nm cruise !

 

[DougH]

Please read it again I specifically mentioned following a 100 nm cruise !

Apologies, I was working on the basis of a 100.96378nm cruise.

 

[NoviceRod]

On the seacock topic, this raises an intersting question for me. Having now taken delivery of my MF705, I am getting mixed messages on seacocks. Some say close at end of each trip, others say leave them open for season. What's the majority view?

 

[Tranona]

A boatyard in Italy is currently carrying out some routine maintenance on my boat. As part of this, I asked them to check the operation of all seacocks including the main engine seawater intake seacocks which feel very stiff to move.
They have come back to me and said that if they take these seacocks apart to check and clean them, they cannot absolutely guarantee their watertightness once they put them back together again. Does this sound right or are they just saying this to cover themselves?
To replace these seacocks with new ones, they have quoted me about €2000 + VAT (20% in Italy). Obviously I'd rather not spend this money, particularly as I've got to spend money in other areas. The seacocks themselves are 3" dia and are 3 way (rather than 2 way) ie there is also an inlet port to pick up water from the bilges and pump it out through the engines in an emergency flooding. The yard is saying that the only supplier of these seacocks is the boat builder ie Ferretti and hence the high price. Anyone know if there is a supplier in the UK who can offer 3 way seacocks of this diameter?

Almost certainly they will be custom made, or very low volume as the normal marine suppliers don't go that large.

As to whether they will leak after rebuilding depends on the design. The two most common types are cone type or ball valves. Normally the latter in small sizes can't be serviced - but are cheap to replace. Larger sizes are more likely to be constructed so that the balls and bearings can be replaced. cone type can be re-bedded and if set up correctly do not leak.

If they are bronze, then the price (if it for two and including labour) is not out of line. The more expensive bronze one way 1 1/2 are around £200 each, although most people use DZR which is a cheaper but acceptable material.

You are probably more likely to find an alternate supplier in US as they have a much bigger market for big engines - but my guess would be that you are unlikely to find a direct replacement.

 

[PaulGooch]

On the seacock topic, this raises an intersting question for me. Having now taken delivery of my MF705, I am getting mixed messages on seacocks. Some say close at end of each trip, others say leave them open for season. What's the majority view?

Closed, absolutely no question, that's why they are there. Any failure of the cooling circuit while you're away will sink the boat very quickly. All seacocks should be closed if you're not onboard.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

On the seacock topic, this raises an intersting question for me. Having now taken delivery of my MF705, I am getting mixed messages on seacocks. Some say close at end of each trip, others say leave them open for season. What's the majority view?

Ask your insurance company. I did and mine told me that they had far more claims from owners who had started their engines having forgotten to open their seacocks and consequently fried their engines than they had from owners who's boat had sunk due to the seacocks being left open. On that basis, I leave my seacocks open unless I know I'm going to be away from the boat a long time, in which case I leave a note to self on the steering wheel. I do try to operate the seacocks from time to time to make sure they work

 

[volvopaul]

Mike, id like to earn that sort of money for less than a days work!!! get me on a plane asap, the valves are stock items at my supplier, most valves these days are made in Italy, like welders and compressors they are good at making them, 2k sounds a fortune!!!

And to think you escaped spain so not to pay some tax!

I do sympathise with you at that, hiow much is an engine service? 10k

 

[aquatom]

The calcium build up in the med is bad and will make large diameter seacocks stiff. In Spain we use an acid either Salfumant or Agua fuerte. I would have thought you could get something similar there.

Just squirt it up the seacocks from outside move the valve back and forward a few times then rince it out well. A good spray with lubricant afterwards is worth it aswell.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Almost certainly they will be custom made, or very low volume as the normal marine suppliers don't go that large.

As to whether they will leak after rebuilding depends on the design. The two most common types are cone type or ball valves. Normally the latter in small sizes can't be serviced - but are cheap to replace. Larger sizes are more likely to be constructed so that the balls and bearings can be replaced. cone type can be re-bedded and if set up correctly do not leak.

If they are bronze, then the price (if it for two and including labour) is not out of line. The more expensive bronze one way 1 1/2 are around £200 each, although most people use DZR which is a cheaper but acceptable material.

You are probably more likely to find an alternate supplier in US as they have a much bigger market for big engines - but my guess would be that you are unlikely to find a direct replacement.

Thanks tranona. The seacock is bronze and the price does include labour so I guess I'll have to swallow the cost if it comes to it.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike, id like to earn that sort of money for less than a days work!!! get me on a plane asap, the valves are stock items at my supplier, most valves these days are made in Italy, like welders and compressors they are good at making them, 2k sounds a fortune!!!

And to think you escaped spain so not to pay some tax!

I do sympathise with you at that, hiow much is an engine service? 10k

To be fair, VP, the prices for other stuff the yard has quoted me are reasonable so I've got no reason to suspect that they're trying to rip me off. For example they've quoted me €900 (£750) for servicing both engines with me supplying parts from the UK and their labour rate is €35 (£29) which is reasonable.
The yard tell me that the seacock is not available from other suppliers so I have to believe them

 

[MapisM]

The yard is saying that the only supplier of these seacocks is the boat builder ie Ferretti and hence the high price.

It's extremely hard to believe that whoever produces these seacocks (which obviously isn't Ferretti) wouldn't supply them directly.
Now, finding who such producer is, that's a different matter. Dontcha have any pics?

 

[Divemaster1]

3" is stock items most places in industry... I can probably go down to our local hose / hydraulic hose supplier tomorrow and buy a couple... anyway ... here's a couple of links...

http://www.herose.co.uk/_webapp/TRANSFORMER VALVES 3 way valves

http://www.herose.co.uk/_webapp/TRANSFORMER VALVES 3 way valves

http://www.nibco.com/assets/3Way1.pdf

http://www.apollovalves.com/products/products.asp?sub=16

 

[blueglass]

The calcium build up in the med is bad and will make large diameter seacocks stiff. In Spain we use an acid either Salfumant or Agua fuerte. I would have thought you could get something similar there.

Just squirt it up the seacocks from outside move the valve back and forward a few times then rince it out well. A good spray with lubricant afterwards is worth it aswell.

You can do this With the boat on the water. disconnect the other end of the hose attached to the seacock and pour some acid down the pipe. Tie the pipe up in a vertical position overnight leaving acid to clear the calcium build up. My guardiennage guy in Greece does this regularly to free of siezed up seacocks.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You can do this With the boat on the water. disconnect the other end of the hose attached to the seacock and pour some acid down the pipe. Tie the pipe up in a vertical position overnight leaving acid to clear the calcium build up. My guardiennage guy in Greece does this regularly to free of siezed up seacocks.

Thanks to you and Aquatom for advice. I will speak to the boatyard