Seacock broke in my hand!

dragoon

dragoon

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I was running through some maintenance items today - one was to cycle the sea cocks so they don't seize. I came to the last one - the forward head inlet - grabbed it and before I knew it I was holding the top of the valve in my hand watching a plume of water coming in.

I've now 'plugged' the leak and am spending the night on board in the hope that the yard will lift me in the morning.

My message - check your seacocks - this one was a bronze one purchased from the local chandler about 4 years ago - it has totally perished. The one it replaced was over 30 years old and I only changed it because it seized.
 
dragoon said:
I was running through some maintenance items today - one was to cycle the sea cocks so they don't seize. I came to the last one - the forward head inlet - grabbed it and before I knew it I was holding the top of the valve in my hand watching a plume of water coming in.

I've now 'plugged' the leak and am spending the night on board in the hope that the yard will lift me in the morning.

My message - check your seacocks - this one was a bronze one purchased from the local chandler about 4 years ago - it has totally perished. The one it replaced was over 30 years old and I only changed it because it seized.
Click to expand...

Has a familiar ring to it. Frightening when it happens and made me have a load of bungs close at hand.
 
If it was only four years then the fixings should be easy to undo? get a new one ready to install, remove the old one and screw the new one one, use your foot (no socks or shoes on) to stem the flood.
 
omega2 said:
If it was only four years then the fixings should be easy to undo? get a new one ready to install, remove the old one and screw the new one one, use your foot (no socks or shoes on) to stem the flood.
Click to expand...

or use a Seabung, as seen on Dragon's Den

http://www.seabung.com/

It seems strange that the old one lasted 30 years, and this one has crumbled after just 4. It seems possible the new one was incorrectly labelled, and is in fact brass?

As a related aside, I had to use a brass fitting in a below waterline application a couple of years ago. It was only intended to be temporary, but in the end it was almost a year by the time I changed it. I wasn't worried, as I thought brass fittings would at least last a few years, but when I removed it, it had the consistency of clay and I could crumble it with my fingers

IMG_1555_zpslmeca31n.jpg
 
Medskipper said:
If it was only four years old, I suggest it's possible the problem was caused by electrolysis?
best check.
Click to expand...

+1

either it was not DZR and just brass (as in Nick H's case) or you have a bonding issue, but I am sure you are checking.

Similar thing happened to me on my parents boat the end of last year removing generator inlet to winterise, tailpipe snapped off in my hand, fortunately just tailpipe so seacock intact. Spoke to Osmotech who advised to replace all below waterline seacocks as a precaution as boat 22 years old... job done over the winter, 17 of them done, 2 pretty recent so not necessary.. the price to renew 17 was eye watering, but got to say as normal Osmotech did a very good job.

always worth a read (and has been posted on here many times) http://trip.ayy.fi/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Seacocks.pdf
 
Like others I doubt if this was bronze in the first place. You have to be soooo careful. I have seen stuff labelled as bronze in quite reputable chandlers that was "tonval" when challenged the assistant insisted that tonval was the same as bronze. It simply isn't and the only way to be absolutely sure a fitting is OK is to buy Lloyds approved or similar (DNV Crown assurance etc) If it says "made in china" treat with extreme suspicion.
 
boatmike said:
Like others I doubt if this was bronze in the first place. You have to be soooo careful. I have seen stuff labelled as bronze in quite reputable chandlers that was "tonval" when challenged the assistant insisted that tonval was the same as bronze. It simply isn't and the only way to be absolutely sure a fitting is OK is to buy Lloyds approved or similar (DNV Crown assurance etc) If it says "made in china" treat with extreme suspicion.
Click to expand...

As a complete aside, bronze watches were all the rage a few years back and a number of small boutique brands rushed to produce an offering. It subsequently turned out that many had been duped and inadvertently bought in brass for manufacturing. Very embarrassing for all concerned when it came to light that watches sold as bronze were in fact brass. Of course, the consequences are much less serious for a item worn on the wrist as opposed to bobbing around in the sea.
 
Is there a way to tell what you're buying? Some sort of standard stamp/marking in the casting perhaps?

Seems like a bit of a minefield....with potentially costly consequences.
 
Here's an update - firstly thanks to all who replied, it helped my moral in the wee hours to know peeps had an interest . The hole could not be plugged with a bung, but was sealed with a flip flop held over the hole with a clamp!!

I chose not to try and change it in the water - there were complications with a 90' bend and the hose on tight which had to cut off. Also as the bonnet had come away there would be two inlets of water when I released the hose.

The boat was lifted around 8.00 and I disassembled. My conclusion is that the valve body was bronze, but the bonnet was brass, and very thin brass at that.

I changed it for a new DZR Bronze ball valve (£8). The skin fittings and other fittings have not deteriorated and are of substantial material. I also checked all the other valves and skin fittings.

If I can find a way, I will post pics. The boat is back in the water and at her berth once more.

Cheers Paul
 
Gate valves are normally made of brass, I have not come across bronze or DZR ones.

If the valve body is marked CW617N its brass.

Gate valves should not be used underwater, they easily seize and sometimes it feels as if they are closing when they are not.
 
Thanks Dragoon for the update and good to hear it all came good in the end.
Yep, gate valves are best avoided. They aren't used widely in this type of application so there is temptation for manufacturers not to use all bronze. Ball valves are a much safer bet, sourced from Asap or Aquafax (though, if I recall correctly, Aquafax were guilty of mislabelling brass/bronze in that PBO test several years ago). I buy the seaflow branded bronze ones from Asap, fwiw

Nick-H's story/picture above is quite worrying and makes you think!
 
jfm said:
I buy the seaflow branded bronze ones from Asap, fwiw
Click to expand...
I have a 2.5" gate valve on my sailing boat's hull for the exhaust (amidships) which is normally just above water but when heavily laden in 'cruising mode' in year's past it has been more or less underwater - I should really change it for a ball valve sometime.

However, I've just been on ASAP's website and looked at the Seaflow Bronze and DZR ball valves and read both the descriptions. I would probably have gone for bronze but am now not too sure.

1) Seaflow Bronze Body with Chrome Plated Brass Ball and Stainless Steel Handle

2) Seaflow CR (DZR) Brass Body & Ball With Zinc Plated Steel Handle

The implication is that the more expensive bronze valve only has a brass (not DZR) ball, albeit chrome plated.

So which option do you think is the superior one?
 
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