Sea water leak mid trip - what else could I check

[RupertW]

We were a couple of days out of Gib heading to Madeira on Monday night (expected 20-29 knot winds but not expected almost dead against us and some nasty cross swells making it a swooping motion from heeled to very heeled). Bilges on downside started spurting water above the floorboards and alas it was salty.

Three hours of manual and electric pumping, checking all seacocks, shaft seal, impellor, transducer and keel bolts and endless endless clearing of the pump filter ( an easy job normally but not helped by the motion) and we cleared the bilges. My wife went to nap for a hour as we had both missed off-watch rest and when she woke up the floorboards were awash again. So we closed every seacock, dropped the main and turned downwind - which happened to be towards Casablanca 80 miles away and we cleared the bilges in half an hour and they didn’t refill.

So in Rabat marina I think I’ve found the issue due to a new seacock fitted over Winter for a water cooled fridge - the techie also replaced a couple of long seized stopcocks for the salt water tap which we’ve never used and that inadvertently opened a hidden route from seacock to fridge with every part under sea level when heeled well to port. The fridge drain was so loosely connected to the pipe that drained the fridge into the bilge and therefore the sea water too.

So that’s my theory and I’ve wired shut the offending valve but can’t fully test until we set out again and get well heeled over. Any other thoughts?

 

[Yngmar]

Go sail, starting with closed seacocks, then when suitably heeled, open one at a time and observe closely.

Or you can tie a halyard to a suitable shoreside point and winch until the boat heels in the marina. May upset someone though, or get you on Instagram

 

[RichardS]

I've no idea what the leak might be Rupert but I'm just wondering why the electric bilge pump couldn't clear it?

Richard

 

[Porthandbuoy]

You don’t say how large the fridge drain pipe is. Does it seem plausible it could allow so much water into the bilges in the time given?

Two things you might consider:-
1) You do say the wind was on the nose. Did you have green water coming over the foredeck and pouring down the navel pipe into the chain locker and the bilges?

2) Could there be a problem with the hull/deck joint allowing copious amounts of water in when “heeled to very heeled”.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Why would water from a seawater tap get into the fridge? Was there sea water in the fridge? were the contents wet? Or is it all to do with the actual seawater seacock to the fridge compressor leaking? But unless you have closed it and are not running the fridge then it can't be. I am obviously missing something from your description.

 

[lw395]

Any thru-hulls in the topsides? Bilge pump outlets? Electric especially!

Anchor locker and any hole on the foredeck is possible.
Mast boot can let in a surprising amount once there is water on deck.
Engine plumbing.
Toilet?

Toe rail, hull deck join generally is a prime suspect.
Or is the keel falling off?

 

[jordanbasset]

Maybe a long shot but friends of ours had a Jeanneau 35 and the seal around the stern of sugar scoop and the rest of the boat has come adrift (by that I do not mean gaping open but open enough to let water in), difficult to notice because of the rubber seal covering it.
As I say probably not the situation in your case as the amount of water coming in appears too much for that

 

[RupertW]

Why would water from a seawater tap get into the fridge? Was there sea water in the fridge? were the contents wet? Or is it all to do with the actual seawater seacock to the fridge compressor leaking? But unless you have closed it and are not running the fridge then it can't be. I am obviously missing something from your description.

Seacock to seawater tap had a hidden couple of stop cocks one pipe to the seawater tap and one to a pipe leading (I eventually found out in the marina) to the fridge drain. That pipe was firmly connected to the drain plug but the drain plug had lost its retaining nut so was loose (not visibly) at the bottom of the sink.

The idea of the arrangement must have been that by shutting the seacock but opening the stop cock to the fridge drain then the seawater foot pump cleared fridge water into the sink to drain from there.

However the Jeannea manual said the fridge drained into the bilges and as it demonstrably did we had never realised there was a loose pipe involved too. So with fridge bottom and all pipe work under sea level ( and seized hidden stopcock helpfully replaced over the winter) then if I am right seawater came in the seacock went along the now open stop cock to fridge drain then bubbled up into fridge where it promptly drained around the edges of the plug fitting as it had always done. I tested this at the marina with a hose pipe into the seacock hose and watched the fridge getting water in which instantly flowed into the bilge.

 

[MAURICE]

Hope its sorted safe travels Dont forget Mozart restaurant in Madeira
Maurice and Gill

 

[RupertW]

I've no idea what the leak might be Rupert but I'm just wondering why the electric bilge pump couldn't clear it?

Richard

Electric pump filter needed clearing almost immediately and many times but when every bit of debris had been caught after 3 hours it was still working normally but so feeble compared to ordinary Henderson manual pump which needed 5 minutes vigorous pumping every 15 to break even.

30 seconds to clear a sump of fridge drain seems fine but nothing compared to about 5 seconds to clear with 3 or 4 strokes of manual. Will look at better electric pumps.

 

[RupertW]

You don’t say how large the fridge drain pipe is. Does it seem plausible it could allow so much water into the bilges in the time given?

Two things you might consider:-
1) You do say the wind was on the nose. Did you have green water coming over the foredeck and pouring down the navel pipe into the chain locker and the bilges?

2) Could there be a problem with the hull/deck joint allowing copious amounts of water in when “heeled to very heeled”.

Shallow bilges but also when we used a hose to test the theory then it easily showed the same amount of inflow.

No navel pipe as self draining anchor locker with built in bulkhead but have justn checked the old life jackets in the underbunk forecabin and all dry. Thanks.

Good thought on hull deck joint / nothing visible wet high up at all but there is panelling so will open that up and look for wet or salt stains

 

[RupertW]

Any thru-hulls in the topsides? Bilge pump outlets? Electric especially!

Anchor locker and any hole on the foredeck is possible.
Mast boot can let in a surprising amount once there is water on deck.
Engine plumbing.
Toilet?

Toe rail, hull deck join generally is a prime suspect.
Or is the keel falling off?

Thanks - I’ve been through all of those except bilge pump outlets which are at the stern and I think got wet very rarely but will check.

Of course the keel falling off and Cheeki Rafiki continuing to punch to windward was high in my thoughts, but as the keelboat mouldings don’t even show hairline cracks from any movement I’m hoping not.

 

[RupertW]

Maybe a long shot but friends of ours had a Jeanneau 35 and the seal around the stern of sugar scoop and the rest of the boat has come adrift (by that I do not mean gaping open but open enough to let water in), difficult to notice because of the rubber seal covering it.
As I say probably not the situation in your case as the amount of water coming in appears too much for that

Thanks - will check

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Seacock to seawater tap had a hidden couple of stop cocks one pipe to the seawater tap and one to a pipe leading (I eventually found out in the marina) to the fridge drain. That pipe was firmly connected to the drain plug but the drain plug had lost its retaining nut so was loose (not visibly) at the bottom of the sink.

The idea of the arrangement must have been that by shutting the seacock but opening the stop cock to the fridge drain then the seawater foot pump cleared fridge water into the sink to drain from there.

However the Jeannea manual said the fridge drained into the bilges and as it demonstrably did we had never realised there was a loose pipe involved too. So with fridge bottom and all pipe work under sea level ( and seized hidden stopcock helpfully replaced over the winter) then if I am right seawater came in the seacock went along the now open stop cock to fridge drain then bubbled up into fridge where it promptly drained around the edges of the plug fitting as it had always done. I tested this at the marina with a hose pipe into the seacock hose and watched the fridge getting water in which instantly flowed into the bilge.

Thanks I understand now, it seems like a plausible source.

 

[simonfraser]

if you have a sudden new problem, think of what you changed / did recently:

'in Rabat marina I think I’ve found the issue due to a new seacock fitted over Winter for a water cooled fridge - the techie also replaced a couple of long seized stopcocks for the salt water tap'

 

[RupertW]

if you have a sudden new problem, think of what you changed / did recently:

'in Rabat marina I think I’ve found the issue due to a new seacock fitted over Winter for a water cooled fridge - the techie also replaced a couple of long seized stopcocks for the salt water tap'

In my first career as a cider that was always the first thought - if you can’t immediately see the problem then check what has changed.

Just got into signal at Lanzarote after a trip with just the usual fridge water in the bilges cleared by float switch. Same biggish waves and gusty winds but a total pleasure of a sail in comparison.

Thanks all.

 

[Neeves]

It sounds as though you have resolved the issue.

It underlines that issues any of us might have with sailing in 'local' waters are no test for a serious offshore and bluewater cruise. Normally if one is sailing (or going to be sailing) with toerails under water we 'don't go out' - you mow the lawn instead.

With submerged toerails (on a monohull) we had a toilet syphoning water into the bilges once (on one tack) - easy remedy (when you think about it) but in the panic the leak from a loose stanchion bolt (immdiately adjacent to the toilet) seemed the priority.

Jonathan

 

[KellysEye]

Leaks can also come from the stantions on deck..

 

[sailaboutvic]

We were a couple of days out of Gib heading to Madeira on Monday night (expected 20-29 knot winds but not expected almost dead against us and some nasty cross swells making it a swooping motion from heeled to very heeled). Bilges on downside started spurting water above the floorboards and alas it was salty.

Three hours of manual and electric pumping, checking all seacocks, shaft seal, impellor, transducer and keel bolts and endless endless clearing of the pump filter ( an easy job normally but not helped by the motion) and we cleared the bilges. My wife went to nap for a hour as we had both missed off-watch rest and when she woke up the floorboards were awash again. So we closed every seacock, dropped the main and turned downwind - which happened to be towards Casablanca 80 miles away and we cleared the bilges in half an hour and they didn’t refill.

So in Rabat marina I think I’ve found the issue due to a new seacock fitted over Winter for a water cooled fridge - the techie also replaced a couple of long seized stopcocks for the salt water tap which we’ve never used and that inadvertently opened a hidden route from seacock to fridge with every part under sea level when heeled well to port. The fridge drain was so loosely connected to the pipe that drained the fridge into the bilge and therefore the sea water too.

So that’s my theory and I’ve wired shut the offending valve but can’t fully test until we set out again and get well heeled over. Any other thoughts?

Rupert you seen to had sorted it mate ,
One question . What Rabat like ?
Any problem? We might pop out of the Med next year and head that way for a few years .

 

[RichardS]

In my first career as a cider.......

Don't you love these spell checkers?

My first career was as a lager. :encouragement:

Richard