Lizzie_B
New member
Thanks
Thanks.
Thanks.
Scrap VHF - Use your Mobile Phone
- Thread starter Sea Devil
- Start date
pheran
New member
We carry a very simple 12-volt back-up in the form of one of these Jump Start packs. Cost £15 from Makro and provides a very convenient 27Ah of 12v power. Will even start your engine for you too!
duncan
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
Makes you think? Have you got the CC telephone number pinned above your chart table
[/ QUOTE ]
no - but both Solent and Portland are already programmed into the thing!
in my (limited experience) if you are close enough to the coast for the mobile to work then a handheld will get through to the CG; and there are many black holes for mobile too, even close in - around St Albans Head Dorset is a good one.
I would have a good quality waterproof handheld at the helm, although the mobile is there too, as it's also the last thing into the grab bag on the way to the dingy and is significantly more water proof than most mobile phones!
Makes you think? Have you got the CC telephone number pinned above your chart table
[/ QUOTE ]
no - but both Solent and Portland are already programmed into the thing!
in my (limited experience) if you are close enough to the coast for the mobile to work then a handheld will get through to the CG; and there are many black holes for mobile too, even close in - around St Albans Head Dorset is a good one.
I would have a good quality waterproof handheld at the helm, although the mobile is there too, as it's also the last thing into the grab bag on the way to the dingy and is significantly more water proof than most mobile phones!
JonBrooks
New member
Hey Cliff
You never answered the questio last time I asked it about your poll results.
How many did you poll in total?
Was it the full 68,000 licenced marine radio users in the UK?
If not your claims based on the poll are a tad of a red herring.
Whilst there have been some very high profile rescues that give thanks to the use of the humble mobile is it the right trust it totally?
I would have to say not.
Not just because of who I work for, or the fact that I am a RYA SRC assessor but because of the following FACTS:-
Mobile coverage is very patchy at sea so contact can be easily lost.
As some of you my have found as the phones are now digital the call will be awful if in a fringe area.
No RNLI vessel, Coastguard SAR Chopper, Navy SAR Chopper or RAF SAR chopper can direction find on mobile phones, they all can on VHF.
You can only talk to one person at a time, so the boat 5 mins away from you does not know your in trouble and could help save your life!
The mobile is a great back up to your VHF please don't rely on it as your only means of comms when at sea.
Regards
You never answered the questio last time I asked it about your poll results.
How many did you poll in total?
Was it the full 68,000 licenced marine radio users in the UK?
If not your claims based on the poll are a tad of a red herring.
Whilst there have been some very high profile rescues that give thanks to the use of the humble mobile is it the right trust it totally?
I would have to say not.
Not just because of who I work for, or the fact that I am a RYA SRC assessor but because of the following FACTS:-
Mobile coverage is very patchy at sea so contact can be easily lost.
As some of you my have found as the phones are now digital the call will be awful if in a fringe area.
No RNLI vessel, Coastguard SAR Chopper, Navy SAR Chopper or RAF SAR chopper can direction find on mobile phones, they all can on VHF.
You can only talk to one person at a time, so the boat 5 mins away from you does not know your in trouble and could help save your life!
The mobile is a great back up to your VHF please don't rely on it as your only means of comms when at sea.
Regards
claymore
Well-known member
If you are an Orange user going from Kilmelford to Tobermory - don't get into trouble until you are near Oban or near Tobers as there is not much in the way of mobile signals.
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
This seems to be a perpetual problem- have the correct kit, then drown the batteries- got me thinking about installing a small 12V battery high up hehind the nav station, possibly waterproofed, but charging on the same circuit as the domestic batteries. If the **** hit the fan, you could have an isolator switch to turn to emergency dry power and therefore still have your higher powered VHF as well as your other nav instruments, no matter how much water was in your bilges. Would this work? The main priority would be a bombproof VHF power supply.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats a very good idea... would be dead easy to implement..... might take some thought though in how to avoid a flooded charging circuit shorting out the battery ...
This seems to be a perpetual problem- have the correct kit, then drown the batteries- got me thinking about installing a small 12V battery high up hehind the nav station, possibly waterproofed, but charging on the same circuit as the domestic batteries. If the **** hit the fan, you could have an isolator switch to turn to emergency dry power and therefore still have your higher powered VHF as well as your other nav instruments, no matter how much water was in your bilges. Would this work? The main priority would be a bombproof VHF power supply.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats a very good idea... would be dead easy to implement..... might take some thought though in how to avoid a flooded charging circuit shorting out the battery ...
pugwash
New member
Two important points seem to have been missed --
(1) when you call by radio the CG can get your bearing and distance and check your coordinates
(2) other vessels that might be able to help can hear you
If I got into a real mess I'd be happy to use both.
(1) when you call by radio the CG can get your bearing and distance and check your coordinates
(2) other vessels that might be able to help can hear you
If I got into a real mess I'd be happy to use both.
TigaWave
New member
I've have a portable 12v system that will run off a small sealed lead acid battery for quite a while, the battery is 6Ah same as they use in house alarms. I have connections for GPS/Laptop with plotter/ssb radio for weather/spare connectors for fixed VHF, and a portable towed generator.
So even if we lost everything on a long passage I would still have VHF, weather and a means to charge the battery. I had this on my own boat as a back up, the battery stays fairly well charged for 6 months.
But I've also had to put out a mayday (not my boat I hasten to add) when we were filling with water and about to loose our electrics, VHF was very handy in talking to the helicopter who was on his way with a big pump, but thats a nother story.
So even if we lost everything on a long passage I would still have VHF, weather and a means to charge the battery. I had this on my own boat as a back up, the battery stays fairly well charged for 6 months.
But I've also had to put out a mayday (not my boat I hasten to add) when we were filling with water and about to loose our electrics, VHF was very handy in talking to the helicopter who was on his way with a big pump, but thats a nother story.
fireball
New member
[ QUOTE ]
You never answered the questio last time I asked it about your poll results.
How many did you poll in total?
Was it the full 68,000 licenced marine radio users in the UK?
If not your claims based on the poll are a tad of a red herring.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its called a sample Jon ... u know, get a general trend of opinion ... alright, so a poll on here about VHF usage is not going to get results from a complete cross section of the sailing community but the results (if truthful) still make stark reading ... and I know, we need to lobby the govn about DSC and not the manufacturers!
You never answered the questio last time I asked it about your poll results.
How many did you poll in total?
Was it the full 68,000 licenced marine radio users in the UK?
If not your claims based on the poll are a tad of a red herring.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its called a sample Jon ... u know, get a general trend of opinion ... alright, so a poll on here about VHF usage is not going to get results from a complete cross section of the sailing community but the results (if truthful) still make stark reading ... and I know, we need to lobby the govn about DSC and not the manufacturers!
JonBrooks
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Its called a sample Jon ... u know, get a general trend of opinion ... alright, so a poll on here about VHF usage is not going to get results from a complete cross section of the sailing community but the results (if truthful) still make stark reading ... and I know, we need to lobby the govn about DSC and not the manufacturers!
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Fireball
Sorta knew that was trying to stimulate things a tad /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Whilst a cross section is good, it is only good if you are taking it from a balance.
If you take a cross section from people either pro or anti something it can and is very mis leading.
I talk to hundreds of people over a year on this very subject.
Have to say the feedback I get is poles apart from the feelings here.
Whilst there is a large number of people who are anti DSC and have no intention of changing I know from chat with people like Ofcom, MCA and also from our sales that DSC is selling in big numbers.
We still make and sell two radio's with add on DSC.
So you can just buy the VHF radio and add the DSC later.
Whilst these still sell well they do not sell in the huge numbers that our all in one DSC units do, work that out.
I fully understand the frustration of the large number of alerts heard but this seems to be a sailing thing.
Mobo user, fishing boat's, Ribs etc don't have the same problems.
I also understand that is is due to the high antenna on most sailing craft.
The other problem you are up against is DSC is here to stay, love it or hate it.
All the time you guy's don't have to fit a radio by law your views will be heard but taken in to context against those who HAVE to fit DSC.
I know this debate will run and run but it is good from my point of veiw to read all this feedback.
Regards
Its called a sample Jon ... u know, get a general trend of opinion ... alright, so a poll on here about VHF usage is not going to get results from a complete cross section of the sailing community but the results (if truthful) still make stark reading ... and I know, we need to lobby the govn about DSC and not the manufacturers!
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Fireball
Sorta knew that was trying to stimulate things a tad /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Whilst a cross section is good, it is only good if you are taking it from a balance.
If you take a cross section from people either pro or anti something it can and is very mis leading.
I talk to hundreds of people over a year on this very subject.
Have to say the feedback I get is poles apart from the feelings here.
Whilst there is a large number of people who are anti DSC and have no intention of changing I know from chat with people like Ofcom, MCA and also from our sales that DSC is selling in big numbers.
We still make and sell two radio's with add on DSC.
So you can just buy the VHF radio and add the DSC later.
Whilst these still sell well they do not sell in the huge numbers that our all in one DSC units do, work that out.
I fully understand the frustration of the large number of alerts heard but this seems to be a sailing thing.
Mobo user, fishing boat's, Ribs etc don't have the same problems.
I also understand that is is due to the high antenna on most sailing craft.
The other problem you are up against is DSC is here to stay, love it or hate it.
All the time you guy's don't have to fit a radio by law your views will be heard but taken in to context against those who HAVE to fit DSC.
I know this debate will run and run but it is good from my point of veiw to read all this feedback.
Regards
boatmike
Well-known member
And you think VHF isn't? They both have their place and neither are perfect.
PhilipStapleton
New member
If you use VHF, the Coastguard/Lifeboat/Helicopter/other vessels can all talk to you directly during the rescue. If you use a mobile, it all has to go though the coastguard. I'd go for VHF every time, and carry a portable as a backup if the ship's batteries failed. A mobile's the next-to-last resort - just before the flares!
My only real experience of this was on the east coast - we has a problem and tried to call the CG on the main radio (see below) and then the portable, but couldn't raise them. We used the mobile and then the CG sent out a Land Rover to where we could communicate by VHF, and we continued on the radio.
Incidentally, we had done a radio check before leaving - and like good people, we didn't bother the CG but used another boat in the marina. Unfortunately, there was a problem with the aerial and while the other boat heard us OK, no one further away than a few hundred metres could.
My only real experience of this was on the east coast - we has a problem and tried to call the CG on the main radio (see below) and then the portable, but couldn't raise them. We used the mobile and then the CG sent out a Land Rover to where we could communicate by VHF, and we continued on the radio.
Incidentally, we had done a radio check before leaving - and like good people, we didn't bother the CG but used another boat in the marina. Unfortunately, there was a problem with the aerial and while the other boat heard us OK, no one further away than a few hundred metres could.
fireball
New member
To DSC or not to DSC
well - if the feedback your getting is poles appart from the poll on here then either one or the other cross sections are screwed or both are ...
If I was after a plain VHF I would not purchase a new Non-DSC VHF, I would just choose to not enter the MMSI number - afterall, these things should last at least 10 years and I wouldn't want to have to put in a second unit if DSC became compulsory...
well - if the feedback your getting is poles appart from the poll on here then either one or the other cross sections are screwed or both are ...
If I was after a plain VHF I would not purchase a new Non-DSC VHF, I would just choose to not enter the MMSI number - afterall, these things should last at least 10 years and I wouldn't want to have to put in a second unit if DSC became compulsory...
JonBrooks
New member
Re: To DSC or not to DSC
Fireball
The big down side to that is that even without a MMSI number most DSC radio's on the market will still alarm when they pick up a DSC call.
There has been some duff info offered saying that by not entering your MMSI number you will be free from DSC calls!
So better off having your MMSI number in and using the set.
Regards
Fireball
The big down side to that is that even without a MMSI number most DSC radio's on the market will still alarm when they pick up a DSC call.
There has been some duff info offered saying that by not entering your MMSI number you will be free from DSC calls!
So better off having your MMSI number in and using the set.
Regards
fireball
New member
Re: To DSC or not to DSC
[ QUOTE ]
The big down side to that is that even without a MMSI number most DSC radio's on the market will still alarm when they pick up a DSC call.
[/ QUOTE ]
We found out that - when we had our VHF replaced after the old one was hit by lightning .... were waiting for the MMSI no ... meanwhile, still got DCS alerts .... Doh! ... Ah well
[ QUOTE ]
The big down side to that is that even without a MMSI number most DSC radio's on the market will still alarm when they pick up a DSC call.
[/ QUOTE ]
We found out that - when we had our VHF replaced after the old one was hit by lightning .... were waiting for the MMSI no ... meanwhile, still got DCS alerts .... Doh! ... Ah well
ashanta
New member
The report states that the crew were baling which implies that they did not have a manual bilge pump. I assume they had electric bilge pumps which were out of action due to the dead batteries. I wonder if they had manual bilge pumps on board they could have contained the problem. The report does not say what caused the severe leakl.
fireball
New member
Hmm ... If I had large volumes of water sloshing around in the cabin I'd be using every available means to remove it ..... including 2 stand pumps, one manual bilge pump, 1 electric bilge pump, 2 buckets and a washing up bowl......
I've often wondered what I'd do if I was in a similar situation ..... would it be worth inflating SPARE lifejackets in low compartments/lockers ?? I don't think it would as it would have no buoyancy effect to speak of but would prevent that space being filled with water and therefore help centralise the bailing point .... hmmm .....
I've often wondered what I'd do if I was in a similar situation ..... would it be worth inflating SPARE lifejackets in low compartments/lockers ?? I don't think it would as it would have no buoyancy effect to speak of but would prevent that space being filled with water and therefore help centralise the bailing point .... hmmm .....
Mike_Martin
New member
I always recommend reading the "whole" article before commenting!
In this case http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-dops_p...0&year=2005
They didn't use their VHF as it had been lost to flooding. In other circumstances this could have resulted in loss of life for example if they had've been further "off" they may have had to rely on RFA Brambleleaf for aid. That vessel could have been alerted far quicker if the VHF had remained serviceable rather than having to wait for HMCG's Mayday-Relay.
To me "scrap your VHF" with this story as back-up is pretty short-sighted advice!
Mike
In this case http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-dops_p...0&year=2005
They didn't use their VHF as it had been lost to flooding. In other circumstances this could have resulted in loss of life for example if they had've been further "off" they may have had to rely on RFA Brambleleaf for aid. That vessel could have been alerted far quicker if the VHF had remained serviceable rather than having to wait for HMCG's Mayday-Relay.
To me "scrap your VHF" with this story as back-up is pretty short-sighted advice!
Mike
landaftaf
New member
the subject is intended to stimulate debate/dissent .........
trolling as they say
and I agree - a stupid statement
trolling as they say
and I agree - a stupid statement
LadyInBed
Well-known member
On Sunday a chap put out a Pan Pan - Man overboard in Poole harbour. I've never heard such crap procedure in all my life! CG dragged details out of him like pulling hens teeth.
He would have been better using his mobile!
He would have been better using his mobile!