Schengen - a question of clarification ...

[Bru]

I don't want to hear "don't worry about it", I just want an answer to the question!

From the RYA guidance etc. it seems that a vessel entering the Schengen area via Belgium or the Netherlands is required to complete a crew list form (copies of the relevant forms, different for each country, are on the RYA website although there are suggestions that they are unhelpfully out of date)

However, there is no mention of such a form in relation to France

That leads to question one ... is a Schengen crew list form required in France?

Question two is that if not, when one arrives in Belgium FROM France, given that you're arriving from another Schengen country, is a crew list form THEN required in Belgium???

I am assuming that I am right in thinking that once you've completed a Schengen crew list in the country of entry, you do not have to do so in subsequent countries visited?

 

[Athene V30]

Don't worry about it

Been taking my boat to France since 2001 and Holland / Belgium since mid 2000's and never had to show it anywhere! First time to Holland / Belgium (2004 I think) I did fill the form in and asked the HM at Breskens where to put it - his answer was polite and involved the round paper filing system on the floor.

 

[sailorman]

i have blank forms o/b for Belgium & Holland. To date never used one

 

[Bru]

OK, so it's unlikely that one will be needed (I get that from the RYA site too) but that doesn't answer the question and I'm a curious bunny!

 

[sailorman]

OK, so it's unlikely that one will be needed (I get that from the RYA site too) but that doesn't answer the question and I'm a curious bunny!

You know wot curiosity did to the cat dont you

 

[Bru]

You know wot curiosity did to the cat dont you

Yes and I also know that satisfaction did for said moggy too!

 

[Koeketiene]

Yes and I also know that satisfaction did for said moggy too!

PS: don't worry about it. You think/worry too much and no good will come of it.

 

[Bru]

PS: don't worry about it. You think/worry too much and no good will come of it.

I'm not worried, it's just paperwork and the worst that can happen (from what I can see) in the unlikely event anybody actually bothers about it is that I'll have to fill in the forms again

But I am curious as to the answer to the questions posed. I'm getting the distinct impression that the answer is that nobody knows the answer!!!

 

[Marmalade]

I thought the whole point of the Schengen area was a single border, then free passage within the area. I've always understood that once inside the Schengen area you are not subject to border controls - so if your jump off point is France, you would not have to submit the forms.

Like others - I've carried them, filled them out, not filled them out and not carried them with the same end result - utter indifference from the Belgians and Cloggies.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Like others - I've carried them, filled them out, not filled them out and not carried them with the same end result - utter indifference from the Belgians and Cloggies.

+ 1, that's my experience so far.

 

[MoodySabre]

+ 1, that's my experience so far.

And mine too but Erbas wants to know the law not the practice. Fill out a form and wave it at the first foreign official.

 

[Bru]

The first specific question, and accepting that it's fairly academic, is whether the French require a crew list?

 

[Stork_III]

I have always filled in the Crew List, 3 copies. The RYA ones are out of date. I put one copy in the yellowbox outside the police station in Neiwpoort centre marina, or give it to the HM at RYCO. HM Breskens is not interested. I have been boarded in Breskens marina by the Immigration service and they were only interested in the Crew List, seemed surprised I had already filled it in, as they had copies ready to fill in. The theory is that having lodged 1 copy in first country, the other 2 copies are kept on board to show anybody who is interested. Any change of crew during stay, and you start again.

In theory The Schengen Treaty requires France, having external borders, to insist on a crew list same as Belgium and Holland, but they probably don't.

 

[Gwylan]

I don't want to hear "don't worry about it", I just want an answer to the question!

From the RYA guidance etc. it seems that a vessel entering the Schengen area via Belgium or the Netherlands is required to complete a crew list form (copies of the relevant forms, different for each country, are on the RYA website although there are suggestions that they are unhelpfully out of date)

However, there is no mention of such a form in relation to France

That leads to question one ... is a Schengen crew list form required in France?

Question two is that if not, when one arrives in Belgium FROM France, given that you're arriving from another Schengen country, is a crew list form THEN required in Belgium???

I am assuming that I am right in thinking that once you've completed a Schengen crew list in the country of entry, you do not have to do so in subsequent countries visited?

Do worry about it a bit and work to avoid the aggravation. We spent 4 years in The Netherlands and seemed to meet the entire range of official.

My advice is download the Schengen forms for Belgium and The Netherlands and take a few copies of each with you.
Keep a crew manifest - basically the details of who has crewed on the boat since the journey started. Where they joined, where they left, dates, date of birth and details of their identity document. emergency contact info can be included to make it complete.

Fill in the Schengen form for the relevant country as you arrive. Mostly the same details as the crew manifest.
An added flourish is a rubber stamp with the details of the boat, name, home port, SSR number and anything else that you fancy - get this made before you leave. Officials like stamps - even if they say they don not.

When you arrive, take the copy with you to the marina office and ask them to fax it to the relevant government department. The details are in the Netherlands tomes and hopefully the Belgians will have a number. Ask for a copy of the transmission report and keep a copy for their records.
This last copy will have a lifespan of seconds as it heads for the bin, but they are supposed to receive a copy.
You have done your bit and it is their decision to not keep the record.

If you go to Belgium do a Schengen form, if you go to the Netherlands do a Schengen form. Easier for the official to tell you you do not need it rather than getting grief over not having done it. If you go to France they'll find something else if they feel like it. Though we have had no problems with the French.

We were stopped, approached several times, particularly in The Netherlands and the relevant papers requested. This included a 2 man jet-ski team in mandatory black suits and helmets, an interrogation by radio from one of their vessels and boarding from a launch in The Schelte - that even came down to a discussion about the particular chart i was using to navigate with.

Also check the present situation regarding 'black water' and the Netherlands!

We also got fined €750 for red diesel. That did eventually get refunded, but only after a loud and extended exchange and support from our MEP. Note where and when you fuelled in the log, keep the receipts and also record the engine hours in the log entry.
Frankly how much diesel you might be avoiding duty is not going to make that much difference but it was a quiet day and they thought they'd try it on.

 

[AliM]

We have been asked in both the Netherlands and Germany for the Schengen form. The answer that they both were happy with was:
Fill in the relevant form when you first get to the Netherlands, and give a copy to the harbourmaster on arrival. Keep a copy (I think you are supposed to have filled it in in triplicate, but I don't know what you do with the third copy). Then you can pass freely to another Schengen country. The police there may ask to see your passports, but should be happy that you have filed the correct form. In the NL, they phoned some immigration dept to check that we had indeed filed the form, but did seem surprised that we had - we were checked 3 times in IJmuiden last year, twice on the way, once on the way back, and once in Germany (Greetsiel). It was all very friendly. No one was the slightest interested in red diesel, or holding tanks etc. They said they were looking for illegal immigrants and drugs.
We had a similar issue entering Sweden, where you are OK if you come from another Scandinavian country, but if you arrive directly from a non-Scandinavian one you have to fill in forms - we came from Denmark, and so avoided the hassle.

I have no idea how France deals with it, but if you enter the Schengen area through NL or Belgium, then do the form, and then you are covered if you cross into other Schengen countries.

 

[Cantata]

We've been to the Netherlands via Belgium many times. I always take the forms (yes, the ones off the RYA website). Only once in all those visits have I been asked about it, this was in Nieuwpoort some years ago, visited by a pleasant chap with a large handgun who looked at the form, said it must be so out of date he didn't even recognise it, and cheerfully filled in new ones. He stamped the copies and said we wouldn't need to do anything more when arriving in the Netherlands.
I have in the past offered the forms in various ports in both countries but they were always refused. In Blankenberge I was once directed to an anonymous looking letterbox across the road from the clubhouse in the old port, into which I stuffed the form as directed.
Otherwise, zilch. Been boarded in France but they have never asked for the Schengen forms (which I did have anyway), more interested in who we are, looking at the boat's docs and having a rummage. All very polite too.

 

[CLB]

I'm not worried, it's just paperwork and the worst that can happen (from what I can see) in the unlikely event anybody actually bothers about it is that I'll have to fill in the forms again

But I am curious as to the answer to the questions posed. I'm getting the distinct impression that the answer is that nobody knows the answer!!!

I think that the answer is that the French do not care enough to provide the facilities to complete schengen formalities. Therefore you do not have to do it, even though officially you probably do. I complete a form when I go to Belgoum or Holland as they do seem to make half an effort in making provisions for us to do so. If you were arriving from France you shouldn't be required to do one, although I Probably still would.

 

[Marmalade]

Susanna has reminded me that we were boarded last year by a couple of officials (Oostende) who filled out the form for us (no reproach for not having done so proactively). Ignore my previous comment about complete indifference!

 

[ChattingLil]

cut and pasted from somewhere that I probably shouldn't have (the CA):


For many British yachtsmen France is the nearest foreign country to which to cruise. Entry is frequently made without any formalities in practice. For craft registered in EU countries and whose last port of call was in an EU country there is no requirement to clear in. France does not operate Schengen declarations.
However boats may be subject to random inspection by French Customs at any time both at sea and in harbour. NB The Channel Islands are not part of the EU.


This text is taken from the Cruising Almanac.

 

[Bru]

Thanks Lisa, that answers the question

I think I'm going to join the CA as soon as I've earned enough pennies.