Scary sailing

[Danny_Labrador]

Its always interested me this - what's the optimum ?

I can see how the hull at that angle could present a benefit, (perhaps longer or narrower profile - more speed / efficiency) but surely the sails cannot be working correctly ?

If the wind is assumed to be blowing horizontally then it will all be spilling off the top, no ?

 

[Alfie168]

If they were racing its not a particularly impressive piece of sailing as its not very efficient. It would not have taken a lot to ease the main in the gust, reduce the angle of heel a bit, maintain momentum...and go faster.

When I race in the Sunsail boats from Port Solent, which are admittedly an awful lot lighter, you can only race them so hard before a reef is necessary to maintain speed. With the heavier wooden yacht, easing the main should suffice. I don't think it looks that good either.

Tim

 

[AlJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Certainly my boat would not appreciate being sailed like that and a slab or two in the main would ease the heel, reduce weather helm, be a lot more comfortable and just as fast with a lot less leeway.

If it is just a gust then why not ease the mainsail to bring the boat a bit more upright?

But then I don't race! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on!!

Exactly what I would do, We have a lad here on the Blackwater who is always over powered, submarines the nose most times he go's out racing. Tried explaining loads of times that he would do better in the race if he reduced sail a tad, but the perception is he is going faster, not true!! As I was reading and looking at the photos, I was thinking to my self exactly the same as your response. Then again I don't like to race either, but I do like to get from A to B, comfortably and SAFELY!!!!!

Me over powered,

Al.

 

[billmacfarlane]

Neither do they sailing like that. I can't see why it's particularly scary though, just totally the wrong way to sail to windward. If it's only a gust that's hit them then they should feather the boat into the wind and if the wind stays up, then pull a reef in, roll a lump of headsail in which will take off some of the ridiculous stresses they're putting on what looks like a handsome boat. Isn't it great being an armchair sailor ?

 

[AlJones]

Why after being able to post for ages now, the same way my photo's don't show????

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
BRENDAN????????????????????
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Al. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Oldhand]

It's called automatic de-powering, more heel = less sail area presented to the wind. If the boat is not being slowed by excessive weather helm or excessive drag from the lee-rail being under and the crew aren't falling off the boat then reefing isn't required... but it would be a different storey in waves.

 

[Lakesailor]

The oldest boat in the Class boat fleet is over 100 years old now. To be fair it doesn't get raced so much.
That's how they do it. That's 100 years of racing experience. The boats are fairly technical now, within the rules, but if one guy was to sail more upright and started beating them, they'd all do it. I'm not involved, just an interested observer. Perhaps if a Windermere Class boat racer was on here he could explain.

The Winter handicap series is hard fought and there is more than one World Champion racer in there. That doesn't mean the whole fleet is racing efficiently and a few of the smaller yachts fall over. You rarely see the 1720s etc sailing like that. So, yes, the modern boats don't seem to work that well like that.

 

[Twister_Ken]

And here's another - 6 metre off Calshot.

There's an advantage to sailing older designs on their ears - it increases the waterline length, thus upping the hull speed. (I reckon my Twister's LWL increases about 4 feet, or 20%, when well heeled). They were designed to do this - you'll notice that the immersed area remains pretty well symmetric and so they remain easy to steer. Modern boats with plumb bows and transoms don't benefit from being heeled very far, and because they are so broad at the stern, heeling them makes a very asymmetric underwater shape, which means the boat can't be steered in a straight line without lots of rudder (= brakes).

 

[Lakesailor]

Yes. The rudders and keels are relatively massive for the boat size and the heeling introduces a de-powering of the sails anyway. The Windermere boats (which are 17ft lwl) will increase to nearer their 22ft LOA when heeled well over. That's an useful increase in a keelboat.

That picture of Mad Mongoose illustrates the awful attitude modern boats take when hard pressed. Looks like they've been dropped from a great height.

 

[Billjratt]

Yup, TK has the answer, the skinny lead-mines like it that way.
We could sail by the sound the windows made as they went under the surface (on the last boat, not the motor sailer!).
Until you've had a shot of one of these you won't realise how relaxing it can be. We don't try to balance by clawing on to the high side and getting all tense, we just lie along the low side, get a better view of the sails, and there's nowhere to fall to.
Upwind boat keeps clear, we can see downwind side, what more do you want?

 

[ChrisE]

Whilst I don't often sail like that any IOR cheating boat, like the one on the snap or our Rival 38 will go like [--word removed--] off a shovel as the LWL increases dramatically at 30+ degrees of heel. Our 29' increase to 36' at 30 degrees. I've had sustained 9+ knots like that (plus a fair bit of broken crockery....)

 

[jb2008]

Windermere 17ft class:-
http://www.royal-windermere.co.uk/WhatweSail/17FootClass/tabid/57/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

This would be why they're sailed on their sides:-
[ QUOTE ]
The principal measurements of the original rule were 17ft waterline length, 25ft 6ins length overall

[/ QUOTE ]
So they can be 25ft long when wonky but only 17 upright.
Giving a hull speed of 6.7 vs 5.5 knots.

 

[ChrisE]

Absolutely, a member of the Rival Owners Association did an AZAB with his son some years ago in some pretty awful weather. He was asked when he'd reefed, his reply was that he never reefed.....


Footnote, I wouldn't endorse this style of sailing preferring to get there with all of my fillings intact.....

 

[Lakesailor]

Even longer than I thought.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Windermere 17ft class:-
http://www.royal-windermere.co.uk/WhatweSail/17FootClass/tabid/57/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

This would be why they're sailed on their sides:-
[ QUOTE ]
The principal measurements of the original rule were 17ft waterline length, 25ft 6ins length overall

[/ QUOTE ]
So they can be 25ft long when wonky but only 17 upright.
Giving a hull speed of 6.7 vs 5.5 knots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is wierd because my boat, which isn't entirely dissimilar to the one in the OP, would sail significantly faster with a reef in and more upright than on her beam-ends like the one in the OP picture.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just reading in YW about Fife Week. One of them is 60' LOA, 30'LWL. Just gotta heel that!