harry potter
Well-Known Member
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Scarey moments at the Needles
- Thread starter harry potter
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lw395
Well-Known Member
I don't think Youtube had been invented when many of us learned to respect the tides around Hurst and the Needles.
I think I'd just got my first mobile (no camera) when I surfed in there in an Impala, great fun but not much room for error with the log going upto double figures. A bit of a wake-up call at the end of a long and slightly miss-timed passage.
However, I still prefer it to the North Channel.
Mind how you go!
I think I'd just got my first mobile (no camera) when I surfed in there in an Impala, great fun but not much room for error with the log going upto double figures. A bit of a wake-up call at the end of a long and slightly miss-timed passage.
However, I still prefer it to the North Channel.
Mind how you go!
alant
Well-Known Member
Back about 10years ago, at the Coroners Inquest after the loss of 3 people in a F 11, pitchpoled entering the Solent via the Needles Channel, the Yarmouth Lifeboat Coxn stated that the waves at the Bridge were particularly bad (worse) when there was a flood tide. Not as expected when wind over tide.
Apparently even the Lifeboat would not go that route in those conditions.
activesail
Well-Known Member
Years ago my Dad lost a Fender near the Needles and insisted we retrieved it..
That was scary.. Of course, I would never attempt anything like that...
That was scary.. Of course, I would never attempt anything like that...
Tranona
Well-Known Member
So you prefer the scary moments and the tide setting across your desired course to a nice short straight run with the tide? only exciting bit is when you hit the eddies off the castle - but only lasts a short while.
I have a rather good painting (by an unknown artist) over my mantlepiece showing a Contessa 32 style yacht enjoying brisk conditions at Bridge going in. Well reefed, but expect it was a bit wet!
harry potter
Well-Known Member
Contessa 32
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lw395
Well-Known Member
I've come to expect people on the net to prop up their prejudices with photoshop, but paintings?
The Needles Channel is much better marked and charted than the North. Plenty of water unless you're in RTIR race mode. It usually fits well with my passage plan, although I would use the North if avoiding the tide was key. Would not touch either in F11 though. (I never plan to be out in more than F7 personally).
Robin
Well-Known Member
I've come to expect people on the net to prop up their prejudices with photoshop, but paintings?
The Needles Channel is much better marked and charted than the North. Plenty of water unless you're in RTIR race mode. It usually fits well with my passage plan, although I would use the North if avoiding the tide was key. Would not touch either in F11 though. (I never plan to be out in more than F7 personally).
Sorry but that is not true IMO. The North Channel only has one buoy and even that can be missed out. The Needles has many, the tide in places sets towards the Shingles Bank and the section over The Bridge can be diabolical. I can see why boats approaching from the south might chose the Needles but not those coming from the West when North Channel is shorter anyway. The Needles Channel has seen too many wrecks and deaths to ignore it's potential for danger in bad conditions.
tudorsailor
Well-Known Member
As I will be approaching Southampton from the West in 2 weeks, what is the recommended approach? North Channel or Needles? Are you more at risk ending up on Shingles from the North Channel? I read in the Solent guide that flood is better than ebb.
TudorSailor
TudorSailor
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
That depends entirely on the conditions! Depending on the weather, you could even be better going round the south of IoW and coming into Southampton from the East. Too big a question. though if weather is fine, then Needles is probably most direct if you've come in from out at sea. If you've been motoring in close to shore then North. I've used both frequently, the decision is down to the route you've been on, and the condiitons.
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Having seen the Needles in a F7/8 I can hardly believe someone tried it in an F11.
No wonder they lost there lives.
No wonder they lost there lives.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Yes there have been shipwrecks at the Needles, because that's the way ships tend to go. Anywhere where the tide flows that fast needs to be treated with respect, and hopefully avoided in big weather, particularly wind over tide. Cross tide is not in itself such a problem, just something you must be aware of and allow for in your helming. It's still there in the North Channel too at times, but you don't have the transits of channel marks to remind you. The last bit of the North Channel can be quite rough too, just where you are close to a lee shore sometimes. I think it's only shorter if you're going to/from Poole? But passage time will be more driven by whether the tide in the bay is with you. Must admit I'm not usually going to Poole.
I would try to avoid a big scale wind against tide at Hurst in either case. I've done more than one passage where the narrows was worse than the Bridge. If I got caught out in very bad weather, then the other end of the Solent would probably be my choice. Having said all that, none of this should trouble a well sorted boat and skipper in reasonable weather. If the RTIR fleet can do it....
jimi
Well-Known Member
Agrre completely Robin!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The painting was just one of those chance purchases in a poncy type "art gallery". SWMBO (who has never been through the Needles Channel) says "that looks just like the way you described it" - so we bought it.
Actually my best passage through there was early one summer morning, on my own, good ebb but usual SW breeze, so well set up close hauled with George steering. Up and down with the almost standing waves, but I was sitting facing astern taking piccies of the sunrise over the Island. Funny, thought I was getting a lot of shots - only to realise no film in the camera! Can picture the sunrise now, 20+ years later!
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
I agree with you - let's not get too carried away about the dangers of the Needles. In normal conditions, and plans take the tide into account properly, it is quite straightforward.
Robin
Well-Known Member
I wasn't talking about SHIP wrecks, I meant wrecked yachts, our kind of stuff. I have listened on several sad occasions to the VHF when major incidents were in progress. Two in one bad day resulted in the crews of two yachts lost, one Brit and one German I believe. Not much was left of the boats either which broke up on the Shingles, others searching found cushions and debris and then one found a body, others followed. Another time Yarmouth lifeboat got ahead of the game in a gale on a Bank Holiday and was out there to escort boats returning from France back in in groups because the weather had got worse.
Yes Hurst can be bad where the tides meet but nowhere near as bad as by The Bridge Buoy and whichever channel you choose, Hurst has to be tackled anyway.
The RTIR fleet isn't coming IN to down the Needles they are going out with an ebb tide and that doesn't set strongly towards the Shingles as it does on the flood.
From Poole we can and do use both routes, but 98 times out of 100 the North Channel is better, shorter, faster and safer and always so in stronger winds. In fact mostly we don't bother rounding North Head buoy but head just about 300m NW of Hurst and cut the corner, same going the other way. The tide runs parallel to the beach and doesn't set either towards the Shingles or the shore and the rough stuff off Hurst is passed through very quickly with the flood tide taking you away from the solid land bits.
Sorry to go on about this but I feel it is not good advice to anyone who might be there on a first time visit and faced with bad conditions. In normal conditions it is a different matter and certainly shorter if approaching from France.
jimi
Well-Known Member
Again Robin, in total agreement North Channel may be uncomfortable but is safe, with seastate being sheltered by Shingles. Worst bit is approaching in Christchurch Bay when a gybe may be requ in big seas. Probably better than wearing round, just get a big surf going and then go for the gybe in the trough.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
I agree with Jimi and Robin too, but trying to keep things in perspective for the OP coming in for the first time. It's not always scary - sometimes its easy. It all depends on the weather on the day.
jimi
Well-Known Member
Well actually, Nick, I agree with you too!
FB122
Well-Known Member
Bridge Buoy coming towards me
Think I must have been through this channel over 50 times in my youth .
I would avoid the place in anything over a force 6 unless your vessel is over 50 ft and has a high freeboard .
On spring floods and entering from the south west the tide races across the entrance (well used to in the 1980s) and the Bridge Cardinal Buoy used to appear to be steaming towards you at 15 knots judging by its "BOW WAVE " ..once inside the bridge you have the flood up your bottoms and I once recorded a speed over ground of 17.5 knots when I was only motoring at 11 knots ... quickest bit was through the narrows at Hurst Point .
I can't see myself doing that transit again having settled in Brittany but it was good training for some of the coastal features over here.
Think I must have been through this channel over 50 times in my youth .
I would avoid the place in anything over a force 6 unless your vessel is over 50 ft and has a high freeboard .
On spring floods and entering from the south west the tide races across the entrance (well used to in the 1980s) and the Bridge Cardinal Buoy used to appear to be steaming towards you at 15 knots judging by its "BOW WAVE " ..once inside the bridge you have the flood up your bottoms and I once recorded a speed over ground of 17.5 knots when I was only motoring at 11 knots ... quickest bit was through the narrows at Hurst Point .
I can't see myself doing that transit again having settled in Brittany but it was good training for some of the coastal features over here.
